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It's a bit odd how people think nuclear weapons research needs a fig leaf in the US, where overt nuclear weapons funding is about a hundred times more than the

It's a bit odd how people think nuclear weapons research needs a fig leaf in the US, where overt nuclear weapons funding is about a hundred times more than the government's fusion energy funding. It seems more likely that scientists used the weapons angle to dip into that massive flow of military money for their energy program.

sudosysgen 4y ago
Isn't this at the NIF? The goal was weapons all along.
- DennisP 4y ago
  So, you have a source proving the motivations of the people who founded it and run it now? Because I argued above that it makes little sense to simply assume that weapons are the only goal, or even necessarily the primary goal.
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    > I argued above that it makes little sense to simply assume that weapons are the only goal, or even necessarily the primary goal. You can argue all you want. Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is a government-owned, contractor-operated facility managed through a contract between the LLNS Board of Governors and the DOE's National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA). The NNSA in turn works to ensure that the nation's stockpile of nuclear weapons is safe and secure.
    - DennisP 4y ago
      None of that contradicts what I said, or explains why they bother doing energy research at all.
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        This isn't energy research. It's really fundamental research that is directly useful to nuclear weapons. The funding source being mandated solely for nuclear weapons goes against your claim it's not primarily for weapons.
pxhb 4y ago
https://wci.llnl.gov/ https://wci.llnl.gov/ Note that in the US nuclear weapons are controlled by the DOE, and not the DOD.
tsimionescu 4y ago
That may be more likely a priori (after all, much "military" funding is in fact a convenient way for the government to fund R&D without huge budget fights in Congress). But, ICF is simply not a viable way to produce fusion power, it is far far far too expensive to operate such a device. So, we can only conclude that they are either deluding themselves, or they are in fact doing fusion weapons research (or, at best, simply fundamental theoretical research into how fusion works) - since the same kinds of conditions or forces are what happens inside a fusion bomb.
Retric 4y ago
Nuclear weapons tests have political implications outside and inside the US. It's arguable how much of the NIL is still validating models useful for simulating nuclear weapons vs fundamental research vs energy research. And it’s likely the relative importance of each factor has changed over the programs lifetime.

sudosysgen 4y ago

Isn't this at the NIF? The goal was weapons all along.

DennisP 4y ago
So, you have a source proving the motivations of the people who founded it and run it now? Because I argued above that it makes little sense to simply assume that weapons are the only goal, or even necessarily the primary goal.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  > I argued above that it makes little sense to simply assume that weapons are the only goal, or even necessarily the primary goal. You can argue all you want. Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is a government-owned, contractor-operated facility managed through a contract between the LLNS Board of Governors and the DOE's National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA). The NNSA in turn works to ensure that the nation's stockpile of nuclear weapons is safe and secure.
  - DennisP 4y ago
    None of that contradicts what I said, or explains why they bother doing energy research at all.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      This isn't energy research. It's really fundamental research that is directly useful to nuclear weapons. The funding source being mandated solely for nuclear weapons goes against your claim it's not primarily for weapons.

pxhb 4y ago

https://wci.llnl.gov/ https://wci.llnl.gov/ Note that in the US nuclear weapons are controlled by the DOE, and not the DOD.

tsimionescu 4y ago

That may be more likely a priori (after all, much "military" funding is in fact a convenient way for the government to fund R&D without huge budget fights in Congress). But, ICF is simply not a viable way to produce fusion power, it is far far far too expensive to operate such a device. So, we can only conclude that they are either deluding themselves, or they are in fact doing fusion weapons research (or, at best, simply fundamental theoretical research into how fusion works) - since the same kinds of conditions or forces are what happens inside a fusion bomb.

Retric 4y ago

Nuclear weapons tests have political implications outside and inside the US. It's arguable how much of the NIL is still validating models useful for simulating nuclear weapons vs fundamental research vs energy research. And it’s likely the relative importance of each factor has changed over the programs lifetime.