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As someone who got into real flying from videogames, far and away the thing that has surprised me the most is how much actual "ok look out so you don't hit anyo

As someone who got into real flying from videogames, far and away the thing that has surprised me the most is how much actual "ok look out so you don't hit anyone" there actually exists around decently busy airports in a metropolitan area. More than once I've been flying around my local Class D airport and it was abundantly clear to me just how stressful a job it is to work traffic somewhere like that with all sort of VFR traffic. This looks fun!

t0mas88 4y ago
Absolutely, even around JFK and LAX this is very much a thing. Europe does it differently and keeps traffic on instrument procedures and radar vectors even in good weather. But in the US it's super common in nice weather to have jets into all major airports fly visual approaches, where separation between traffic is very much "look out the window at the plane ahead, don't hit them."
- krzyk 4y ago
  Sounds pretty scary, I was sure everyone uses instruments.
  - chillfox 4y ago
    Less scary than relying on ATC in the US. If you start reading accident reports from the US for GA then it’s its surprisingly frequent that the conclusion is pilot should not have listened to ATC. I think it’s to do with the privatised ATC towers just being lower quality than government run towers in other countries.
    - derefr 4y ago
      With how seriously NTSB five-whys recommendations are taken at all other levels in the industry, you'd think repeated mentions that privatized ATC is problematic would be taken by the FAA as a strong recommendation to... stop allowing that.
- cbanek 4y ago
  LAX is literally the worst for this. There's a lot of people that learn to fly out over LA, and sometimes they will accidentally stay into the landing pattern east from LAX over the city. This is one of the most dangerous and congested sections of air in the world. And the class B cuts right through the city. So sometimes you can get yourself into trouble and end up copying down a number from the tower if you catch my meaning. The same problem with drones and other aircraft interrupting that airspace. I think there was a drone or something flying around LAX (or maybe it was Heathrow) that was causing some trouble like this, and they couldn't figure out for a while who was doing it. If you're VFR, you can probably pack a little tighter, meaning more planes landing per minute. But of course, we could just add a runway. Anyway, the point being, if you learn to fly in LA, you might as well be a professional pilot IMHO.
  - Doxin 4y ago
    To explain the "copying down a number" reference for those who don't know: When ATC tells you to write down a number they'll give you a phone number you're supposed to call after touch down to explain what the heck you thought you were doing. Being asked down to write down a number means you messed up pretty good.
  - t0mas88 4y ago
    Everyone remains IFR, but visual approaches are indeed the way to get a few more flights per hour in the US. Europe decided to instead keep the separation by radar, but allows lower radar separation (less distance) compared to the US once aircraft are establish on the localiser (meaning they're on a straight line to landing). The limitation on hourly capacity for both systems is how quickly planes can get off the runway after landing.

t0mas88 4y ago

Absolutely, even around JFK and LAX this is very much a thing. Europe does it differently and keeps traffic on instrument procedures and radar vectors even in good weather. But in the US it's super common in nice weather to have jets into all major airports fly visual approaches, where separation between traffic is very much "look out the window at the plane ahead, don't hit them."

krzyk 4y ago
Sounds pretty scary, I was sure everyone uses instruments.
- chillfox 4y ago
  Less scary than relying on ATC in the US. If you start reading accident reports from the US for GA then it’s its surprisingly frequent that the conclusion is pilot should not have listened to ATC. I think it’s to do with the privatised ATC towers just being lower quality than government run towers in other countries.
  - derefr 4y ago
    With how seriously NTSB five-whys recommendations are taken at all other levels in the industry, you'd think repeated mentions that privatized ATC is problematic would be taken by the FAA as a strong recommendation to... stop allowing that.
cbanek 4y ago
LAX is literally the worst for this. There's a lot of people that learn to fly out over LA, and sometimes they will accidentally stay into the landing pattern east from LAX over the city. This is one of the most dangerous and congested sections of air in the world. And the class B cuts right through the city. So sometimes you can get yourself into trouble and end up copying down a number from the tower if you catch my meaning. The same problem with drones and other aircraft interrupting that airspace. I think there was a drone or something flying around LAX (or maybe it was Heathrow) that was causing some trouble like this, and they couldn't figure out for a while who was doing it. If you're VFR, you can probably pack a little tighter, meaning more planes landing per minute. But of course, we could just add a runway. Anyway, the point being, if you learn to fly in LA, you might as well be a professional pilot IMHO.
- Doxin 4y ago
  To explain the "copying down a number" reference for those who don't know: When ATC tells you to write down a number they'll give you a phone number you're supposed to call after touch down to explain what the heck you thought you were doing. Being asked down to write down a number means you messed up pretty good.
- t0mas88 4y ago
  Everyone remains IFR, but visual approaches are indeed the way to get a few more flights per hour in the US. Europe decided to instead keep the separation by radar, but allows lower radar separation (less distance) compared to the US once aircraft are establish on the localiser (meaning they're on a straight line to landing). The limitation on hourly capacity for both systems is how quickly planes can get off the runway after landing.