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Funny that you wrote `break if v == 11`. In a prototype I wrote 5 years ago (to learn syntax handling) I implemented this. What ended up happening is if I could

Funny that you wrote `break if v == 11`. In a prototype I wrote 5 years ago (to learn syntax handling) I implemented this. What ended up happening is if I could do `break if ...` then I'd wanted to do expr if. Like `fn() if v == 1`. But at that point it gets confusing to read. Maybe I can try implementing this only for `break`, `continue` and `return` but it might annoy people because expressions aren't allowed. If expressions are then it's back to the problem I had in the prototype I don't know if it'll make things more clear to you but curlys aren't nessicary when you use return/break/continue. I didn't write it because I didn't want to scare people off with the lack of curlys or confuse people on the front page The `::` part looks nice. Would you want the statement to be forced on the same line? Or not like how C allows statements after `else`? As mentioned the compiler forces curly braces so it'll have to be forced to be on the same line as the on statement and I don't know if you'll find that to be a dealbreaker

jstanley 4y ago
> But at that point it gets confusing to read. What's confusing about that? Perl has that, I use it all the time.
- forgotmypw17 4y ago
  What I find confusing about it is that it does not match the execution order. Perl is my main, and I never use that feature.
  - jbverschoor 4y ago
    It’s way more clear and robust than a one liner if. A for loop also doesn’t match what’s being executed. It’s s actually a do/while loop
    - forgotmypw17 4y ago
      One-liner if statements is another pattern I stay away from as much as possible...
      - jbverschoor 4y ago
        I usually use it to do some pre conditional checks, or to return early
        forgotmypw17 4y ago
        That's fair. I still use 3-liners for that.
- levodelellis 4y ago
  Comparing perl to a language that wants to be readable is very funny to me For me, the problem is when my expression got long or if I call a function with multiple parameters. The more complex the line is the easier it is to not notice the `if`. Also I agree with what the other person said, it doesn't match the order if you read top down left to right
  - unfunco 4y ago
    Ruby also has it and it is easily readable.
pmontra 4y ago
Ruby has "expr if cond" and is very readable. I use it all the times if cond is short. I like the _OnBreak _OnComplete _OnEmpty . I think they simplify some loops and make those found_something variables go away. However I don't like that they start with an underscore. It feels so old (C and Python, which was designed at the end of the 80s.) Case conventions are a little strange, something is lower case (main, for), something is camel case, something are upper case (methods?) = := .= could be a little confusing. Why not only one? The compiler should know what to do because of the mut, out keywords. About style: { sometimes leads a line, sometimes doesn't.
- levodelellis 4y ago
  > However I don't like that they start with an underscore Early on _[A-Z] meant reserved variable so that's why it's currently _On. Many keywords are a single word and common enough that it shouldn't bother anyone that it's reserved. However I'm not great coming up with a style guide. On empty is two words, I have no idea how it should be written and everyone seems to have their own style. Do you have a suggestion for the _On keywords? > Why not only one? The compiler should know what to do because of the mut, out keywords You noticed the out keyword? It's not recommended we only use that to interface with C code. Returning multiple variables is much better IMO (I won't speak for everyone). Accumulator and dynamic arrays are common enough that I didn't want to force people to write mut each time. It's simply `:=`
  - pmontra 4y ago
    > Do you have a suggestion for the _On keywords? Let's suppose that in the future you want to add an argument to the break keyword to signal why the loop returned early. I use a string (btw, does the language have symbols / atoms?) break "found" break "eof" break "invalid input" Then you could have on "found" on "eof" on "invalid input" with only one keyword. And on "complete" on "empty" > Returning multiple variables is much better IMO I agree but declaring a name for what you return is nice because it explains the purpose of the returned values. They could go outside the ()s. stat(file) out length, created, modified
UncleEntity 4y ago
> If expressions are then it's back to the problem I had in the prototype If it’s C like then the ExpressionStatement, umm…statement covers this; it’s how “if (foo=1) bar();” works (or leads to bugs depending on your point of view). Also curious on how the automatic memory management works, might be on the website somewhere but I didn’t look past the first page.
- levodelellis 4y ago
  > automatic memory management I wrote some specifics in this thread over a few comments but that and the type system are complex. It can be a talk and writing short post probably will satisfy no one

jstanley 4y ago

> But at that point it gets confusing to read. What's confusing about that? Perl has that, I use it all the time.

forgotmypw17 4y ago
What I find confusing about it is that it does not match the execution order. Perl is my main, and I never use that feature.
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  It’s way more clear and robust than a one liner if. A for loop also doesn’t match what’s being executed. It’s s actually a do/while loop
  - forgotmypw17 4y ago
    One-liner if statements is another pattern I stay away from as much as possible...
    - jbverschoor 4y ago
      I usually use it to do some pre conditional checks, or to return early
      - forgotmypw17 4y ago
        That's fair. I still use 3-liners for that.
levodelellis 4y ago
Comparing perl to a language that wants to be readable is very funny to me For me, the problem is when my expression got long or if I call a function with multiple parameters. The more complex the line is the easier it is to not notice the `if`. Also I agree with what the other person said, it doesn't match the order if you read top down left to right
- unfunco 4y ago
  Ruby also has it and it is easily readable.

pmontra 4y ago

Ruby has "expr if cond" and is very readable. I use it all the times if cond is short. I like the _OnBreak _OnComplete _OnEmpty . I think they simplify some loops and make those found_something variables go away. However I don't like that they start with an underscore. It feels so old (C and Python, which was designed at the end of the 80s.) Case conventions are a little strange, something is lower case (main, for), something is camel case, something are upper case (methods?) = := .= could be a little confusing. Why not only one? The compiler should know what to do because of the mut, out keywords. About style: { sometimes leads a line, sometimes doesn't.

levodelellis 4y ago
> However I don't like that they start with an underscore Early on _[A-Z] meant reserved variable so that's why it's currently _On. Many keywords are a single word and common enough that it shouldn't bother anyone that it's reserved. However I'm not great coming up with a style guide. On empty is two words, I have no idea how it should be written and everyone seems to have their own style. Do you have a suggestion for the _On keywords? > Why not only one? The compiler should know what to do because of the mut, out keywords You noticed the out keyword? It's not recommended we only use that to interface with C code. Returning multiple variables is much better IMO (I won't speak for everyone). Accumulator and dynamic arrays are common enough that I didn't want to force people to write mut each time. It's simply `:=`
- pmontra 4y ago
  > Do you have a suggestion for the _On keywords? Let's suppose that in the future you want to add an argument to the break keyword to signal why the loop returned early. I use a string (btw, does the language have symbols / atoms?) break "found" break "eof" break "invalid input" Then you could have on "found" on "eof" on "invalid input" with only one keyword. And on "complete" on "empty" > Returning multiple variables is much better IMO I agree but declaring a name for what you return is nice because it explains the purpose of the returned values. They could go outside the ()s. stat(file) out length, created, modified

UncleEntity 4y ago

> If expressions are then it's back to the problem I had in the prototype If it’s C like then the ExpressionStatement, umm…statement covers this; it’s how “if (foo=1) bar();” works (or leads to bugs depending on your point of view). Also curious on how the automatic memory management works, might be on the website somewhere but I didn’t look past the first page.

levodelellis 4y ago
> automatic memory management I wrote some specifics in this thread over a few comments but that and the type system are complex. It can be a talk and writing short post probably will satisfy no one