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Yup, One thing to add is PHP is good language to start out if you want to be a PHP Programmer / Web Developer and no plans to move over to something else. But

Yup, One thing to add is PHP is good language to start out if you want to be a PHP Programmer / Web Developer and no plans to move over to something else. But if you want to be a generic programmer or get in to the field, it will save a lot of time and hassle if you start out with C/C++/Java. Those cover all the major concepts to begin with, and switching to PHP or any similar language would be very quick if not instantaneous. Then again, I think it's even a better idea to start with something fun and something you really and feel like you are getting rather than jumping to something really complicated. There is no one-size-fits-all language to start with, it depends from person to person.

silentbicycle 18y ago
> [I]t will save a lot of time and hassle if you start out with C/C++/Java. Those cover all the major concepts to begin with [.]" That's just blatantly false. They're probably good languages to know because they are collectively the lingua franca of programming at the moment, but there is quite a bit they never touch upon. Learning Scheme, Haskell, Prolog, or Forth would introduce you to ideas you would never encounter while using C & co.
unalone 18y ago
Could you think of any big flaws with starting out with PHP? Problems you'd want to avoid? I don't care much for programming: I'm much more interested in design. As such, I really don't think I'll need to learn anything beyond PHP and Javascript. Are there things that I, and people like me, will run into because we don't know any better from other languages?
- emmett 18y ago
  The main problem is the popularity of PHP. There are some great PHP developers out there, but because of the popularity many of them are not good. And you learn how to code from the people around you. The other problem is that both Javascript and PHP encourage implicit casts, which are great but lead to subtle issues you probably won't understand unless you learn a stricter language.
  - jamongkad 18y ago
    And seemingly the good ones tend to know more languages than just PHP. PHP is just another tool in their toolbox unlike the masses of PHP monkeys out there that no nothing but PHP.
  - ars 18y ago
    >The main problem is the popularity of PHP. Yup. All those people saying it's bad - there is only one problem with it - it's too easy, and too many people use it. Rather than repeat myself: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=324895 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=324895

silentbicycle 18y ago

> [I]t will save a lot of time and hassle if you start out with C/C++/Java. Those cover all the major concepts to begin with [.]" That's just blatantly false. They're probably good languages to know because they are collectively the lingua franca of programming at the moment, but there is quite a bit they never touch upon. Learning Scheme, Haskell, Prolog, or Forth would introduce you to ideas you would never encounter while using C & co.

unalone 18y ago

Could you think of any big flaws with starting out with PHP? Problems you'd want to avoid? I don't care much for programming: I'm much more interested in design. As such, I really don't think I'll need to learn anything beyond PHP and Javascript. Are there things that I, and people like me, will run into because we don't know any better from other languages?

emmett 18y ago
The main problem is the popularity of PHP. There are some great PHP developers out there, but because of the popularity many of them are not good. And you learn how to code from the people around you. The other problem is that both Javascript and PHP encourage implicit casts, which are great but lead to subtle issues you probably won't understand unless you learn a stricter language.
- jamongkad 18y ago
  And seemingly the good ones tend to know more languages than just PHP. PHP is just another tool in their toolbox unlike the masses of PHP monkeys out there that no nothing but PHP.
- ars 18y ago
  >The main problem is the popularity of PHP. Yup. All those people saying it's bad - there is only one problem with it - it's too easy, and too many people use it. Rather than repeat myself: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=324895 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=324895