5 ms·

Auto Traffic Control – A gRPC Programming Air Traffic Control Game

117 points by nivenkos 4y ago

sand500 4y ago
Ooh seems cool. Reminds me of the ATC game on iOS way back in the early days of iPhone.
- jafo 4y ago
  Or Kennedy Approach on the C64: "United three two six, say heading and altitude" "This is United three two six on one eight zero at four thousand feet"...even though I knew damn well what his heading an altitude was.
  - blue1 4y ago
    Some years ago a guy called Weps made a free remake for Windows of Kennedy Approach (identical to the original, with some optional improvements). It’s still fun.
    - mdaniel 4y ago
      > Weps made a free remake for Windows of Kennedy Approach There was quite a bit of SEO spam to work through as it seems they let the domain lapse and it was bought up, but this seems to be the general ballpark of when it was live: https://web.archive.org/web/20081223024015/http://www.kennedyapproach.com/news.php https://web.archive.org/web/20081223024015/http://www.kenned... For some reason Wayback didn't hyperlink the actual download, but updating the URL will return it: https://web.archive.org/web/20081224105001/http://www.kennedyapproach.com/request.php?46 https://web.archive.org/web/20081224105001/http://www.kenned...
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  For Oculus owners, there's a really fun VR take on this concept called Control Tower VR. It's not super polished, but the core gameplay loop is fun enough that I don't care. Having a third dimension to route aircraft is really fun, as well as just walking around and watching them.
  - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
    I will be surprised if AR/VR is not used in real life Traffic Control operations in a few years as spatial computing matures because the problem space is so clearly 3D to begin with.
- onlyusername 4y ago
  That game is probably Flight Control: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game)
- jdno 4y ago
  "Flight Control" was one of the first games I ever played on iOS, and one of the inspirations for Auto Traffic Control. I like how engaging the game was, considering it had only a single input and a very simple set of rules. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game) The other game that influenced the design of ATC is "Sector 33". In this game, players had to do a little bit of math using the speeds and distances of planes to coordinate their approach to an airport. https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/Sector33/iOS/index.html https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/Sector33/iOS/index.html Ideally, I'd like to combine the colorful art style and casual randomness of Flight Control with the simple arithmetic of Sector 33. I want to make it interesting for players to watch their creation play the game, and give them a sense of accomplishment when multiple aircraft land in perfect intervals one after the other. Here is a little bit more background about the inspiration for the game in case you want to know more: https://www.jdno.dev/auto-traffic-control/ https://www.jdno.dev/auto-traffic-control/
sand500 4y ago
It would be cool to have an ATC game that uses real life historical traffic to see how you would do. Pick an airport and draw a bounding box around it, record when and where a plane enters the box and replay it in the game. Difficulty can be based on which airport you pick from small regionals to the big multi airport Class-Bs
- xuhu 4y ago
  Since planes go where your code tells them to go, is there a way to combine old trajectories with the possibly different ATC game's directions ?
  - sand500 4y ago
    I'm not sure how realistic the airplanes' responsiveness and agility are in this game. At maximum traffic, it will be one plane per a grid point. Think of it like a game of snake but the tail is static and you are directing the food to join in at the end of the tail. Things like rectangular holding patterns aren't feasible when you are playing only in 2 dimensions
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- toast0 4y ago
  Final Approach - 1982 https://www.mobygames.com/game/final-approach https://www.mobygames.com/game/final-approach
ChicagoBoy11 4y ago
As someone who got into real flying from videogames, far and away the thing that has surprised me the most is how much actual "ok look out so you don't hit anyone" there actually exists around decently busy airports in a metropolitan area. More than once I've been flying around my local Class D airport and it was abundantly clear to me just how stressful a job it is to work traffic somewhere like that with all sort of VFR traffic. This looks fun!
- t0mas88 4y ago
  Absolutely, even around JFK and LAX this is very much a thing. Europe does it differently and keeps traffic on instrument procedures and radar vectors even in good weather. But in the US it's super common in nice weather to have jets into all major airports fly visual approaches, where separation between traffic is very much "look out the window at the plane ahead, don't hit them."
  - krzyk 4y ago
    Sounds pretty scary, I was sure everyone uses instruments.
    - chillfox 4y ago
      Less scary than relying on ATC in the US. If you start reading accident reports from the US for GA then it’s its surprisingly frequent that the conclusion is pilot should not have listened to ATC. I think it’s to do with the privatised ATC towers just being lower quality than government run towers in other countries.
      - derefr 4y ago
        With how seriously NTSB five-whys recommendations are taken at all other levels in the industry, you'd think repeated mentions that privatized ATC is problematic would be taken by the FAA as a strong recommendation to... stop allowing that.
  - cbanek 4y ago
mdaniel 4y ago
heh, I'm surprised it didn't include the automatic HN front-page keyword "... in Rust" https://github.com/jdno/auto-traffic-control/blob/main/Cargo.toml https://github.com/jdno/auto-traffic-control/blob/main/Cargo... but, seriously, I wondered if one needed to deal with waypoints, but it seems that no, they are liberally available: https://auto-traffic-control.com/docs/coordinates#routing-grid https://auto-traffic-control.com/docs/coordinates#routing-gr... I like Zachtronics games as much as the next crazy person, but the thought of having to implement this for a game gives me anxiety
- jdno 4y ago
  Ha! Seems like I could've thought more about the branding of the game. :D Since players interact with the game through a gRPC API, I didn't want to put a specific programming language in the title. In fact, my assumption is that more players want use JavaScript, TypeScript or Python than Rust. Which is why the tutorial on the website has examples in TypeScript and not Rust. I want players to consider the implementation of the game a black box, and instead focus their attention on the sandbox that it provides. The routing grid is an attempt to reduce the initial difficulty for players by essentially converting the map to a set of discrete tiles. I hope that this will make it easier for players to get started. Eventually, I want to add obstacles such as impassable mountains or towns that have restricted airspace to the map. With the routing grid, I can simply mark a tile as blocked. Without it, players would need to compare the shape of the obstacle with the route of the plan and search for intersections. This simplified data model also seems to work well with pre-existing path finding libraries on NPM or crates.io, further reducing the barrier to entry.
akhenakh 4y ago
Love the idea! It seems you are not exposing server reflection https://github.com/grpc/grpc/blob/master/doc/server-reflection.md https://github.com/grpc/grpc/blob/master/doc/server-reflecti... It would be very useful especially for ppl discovering your api and playing with it with gRPC UI client like https://github.com/rogchap/wombat https://github.com/rogchap/wombat. A Universal build (with arm64 build) on OSX would help.
- akhenakh 4y ago
  I've realized it's open source, the arm64 OSX build is taking way less cpu! There is a render bug when the application is not focused, it's taking a tons of cpu resources.
- jdno 4y ago
  Thanks, that's great feedback! I honestly didn't know gRPC had server reflection, will check it out tomorrow. A quick search makes me optimistic that it'll be easy to add. Same for the universal build. Might as well start signing the package while I'm at it.

117 points by nivenkos 4y ago

sand500 4y ago

Ooh seems cool. Reminds me of the ATC game on iOS way back in the early days of iPhone.

jafo 4y ago
Or Kennedy Approach on the C64: "United three two six, say heading and altitude" "This is United three two six on one eight zero at four thousand feet"...even though I knew damn well what his heading an altitude was.
- blue1 4y ago
  Some years ago a guy called Weps made a free remake for Windows of Kennedy Approach (identical to the original, with some optional improvements). It’s still fun.
  - mdaniel 4y ago
    > Weps made a free remake for Windows of Kennedy Approach There was quite a bit of SEO spam to work through as it seems they let the domain lapse and it was bought up, but this seems to be the general ballpark of when it was live: https://web.archive.org/web/20081223024015/http://www.kennedyapproach.com/news.php https://web.archive.org/web/20081223024015/http://www.kenned... For some reason Wayback didn't hyperlink the actual download, but updating the URL will return it: https://web.archive.org/web/20081224105001/http://www.kennedyapproach.com/request.php?46 https://web.archive.org/web/20081224105001/http://www.kenned...
Rebelgecko 4y ago
For Oculus owners, there's a really fun VR take on this concept called Control Tower VR. It's not super polished, but the core gameplay loop is fun enough that I don't care. Having a third dimension to route aircraft is really fun, as well as just walking around and watching them.
- jimmySixDOF 4y ago
  I will be surprised if AR/VR is not used in real life Traffic Control operations in a few years as spatial computing matures because the problem space is so clearly 3D to begin with.
onlyusername 4y ago
That game is probably Flight Control: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game)
jdno 4y ago
"Flight Control" was one of the first games I ever played on iOS, and one of the inspirations for Auto Traffic Control. I like how engaging the game was, considering it had only a single input and a very simple set of rules. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Control_(video_game) The other game that influenced the design of ATC is "Sector 33". In this game, players had to do a little bit of math using the speeds and distances of planes to coordinate their approach to an airport. https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/Sector33/iOS/index.html https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/Sector33/iOS/index.html Ideally, I'd like to combine the colorful art style and casual randomness of Flight Control with the simple arithmetic of Sector 33. I want to make it interesting for players to watch their creation play the game, and give them a sense of accomplishment when multiple aircraft land in perfect intervals one after the other. Here is a little bit more background about the inspiration for the game in case you want to know more: https://www.jdno.dev/auto-traffic-control/ https://www.jdno.dev/auto-traffic-control/

sand500 4y ago

It would be cool to have an ATC game that uses real life historical traffic to see how you would do. Pick an airport and draw a bounding box around it, record when and where a plane enters the box and replay it in the game. Difficulty can be based on which airport you pick from small regionals to the big multi airport Class-Bs

xuhu 4y ago
Since planes go where your code tells them to go, is there a way to combine old trajectories with the possibly different ATC game's directions ?
- sand500 4y ago
  I'm not sure how realistic the airplanes' responsiveness and agility are in this game. At maximum traffic, it will be one plane per a grid point. Think of it like a game of snake but the tail is static and you are directing the food to join in at the end of the tail. Things like rectangular holding patterns aren't feasible when you are playing only in 2 dimensions
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
toast0 4y ago
Final Approach - 1982 https://www.mobygames.com/game/final-approach https://www.mobygames.com/game/final-approach

ChicagoBoy11 4y ago

As someone who got into real flying from videogames, far and away the thing that has surprised me the most is how much actual "ok look out so you don't hit anyone" there actually exists around decently busy airports in a metropolitan area. More than once I've been flying around my local Class D airport and it was abundantly clear to me just how stressful a job it is to work traffic somewhere like that with all sort of VFR traffic. This looks fun!

t0mas88 4y ago
Absolutely, even around JFK and LAX this is very much a thing. Europe does it differently and keeps traffic on instrument procedures and radar vectors even in good weather. But in the US it's super common in nice weather to have jets into all major airports fly visual approaches, where separation between traffic is very much "look out the window at the plane ahead, don't hit them."
- krzyk 4y ago
  Sounds pretty scary, I was sure everyone uses instruments.
  - chillfox 4y ago
    Less scary than relying on ATC in the US. If you start reading accident reports from the US for GA then it’s its surprisingly frequent that the conclusion is pilot should not have listened to ATC. I think it’s to do with the privatised ATC towers just being lower quality than government run towers in other countries.
    - derefr 4y ago
      With how seriously NTSB five-whys recommendations are taken at all other levels in the industry, you'd think repeated mentions that privatized ATC is problematic would be taken by the FAA as a strong recommendation to... stop allowing that.
- cbanek 4y ago

mdaniel 4y ago

heh, I'm surprised it didn't include the automatic HN front-page keyword "... in Rust" https://github.com/jdno/auto-traffic-control/blob/main/Cargo.toml https://github.com/jdno/auto-traffic-control/blob/main/Cargo... but, seriously, I wondered if one needed to deal with waypoints, but it seems that no, they are liberally available: https://auto-traffic-control.com/docs/coordinates#routing-grid https://auto-traffic-control.com/docs/coordinates#routing-gr... I like Zachtronics games as much as the next crazy person, but the thought of having to implement this for a game gives me anxiety

jdno 4y ago
Ha! Seems like I could've thought more about the branding of the game. :D Since players interact with the game through a gRPC API, I didn't want to put a specific programming language in the title. In fact, my assumption is that more players want use JavaScript, TypeScript or Python than Rust. Which is why the tutorial on the website has examples in TypeScript and not Rust. I want players to consider the implementation of the game a black box, and instead focus their attention on the sandbox that it provides. The routing grid is an attempt to reduce the initial difficulty for players by essentially converting the map to a set of discrete tiles. I hope that this will make it easier for players to get started. Eventually, I want to add obstacles such as impassable mountains or towns that have restricted airspace to the map. With the routing grid, I can simply mark a tile as blocked. Without it, players would need to compare the shape of the obstacle with the route of the plan and search for intersections. This simplified data model also seems to work well with pre-existing path finding libraries on NPM or crates.io, further reducing the barrier to entry.

akhenakh 4y ago

Love the idea! It seems you are not exposing server reflection https://github.com/grpc/grpc/blob/master/doc/server-reflection.md https://github.com/grpc/grpc/blob/master/doc/server-reflecti... It would be very useful especially for ppl discovering your api and playing with it with gRPC UI client like https://github.com/rogchap/wombat https://github.com/rogchap/wombat. A Universal build (with arm64 build) on OSX would help.

akhenakh 4y ago
I've realized it's open source, the arm64 OSX build is taking way less cpu! There is a render bug when the application is not focused, it's taking a tons of cpu resources.
jdno 4y ago
Thanks, that's great feedback! I honestly didn't know gRPC had server reflection, will check it out tomorrow. A quick search makes me optimistic that it'll be easy to add. Same for the universal build. Might as well start signing the package while I'm at it.