4 ms·

> Other truck makers like Volvo still talk about hydrogen sometimes but what they are actually deploying and commercializing is guess what, battery trucks. Or

> Other truck makers like Volvo still talk about hydrogen sometimes but what they are actually deploying and commercializing is guess what, battery trucks. Or hydrogen fuel cell trucks and haulers: https://thedriven.io/2022/08/04/hyundai-rolls-out-27-heavy-duty-hydrogen-trucks-in-germany/ https://thedriven.io/2022/08/04/hyundai-rolls-out-27-heavy-d... https://thedriven.io/2022/06/21/volvo-unveils-hydrogen-powered-truck-with-1000km-range/ https://thedriven.io/2022/06/21/volvo-unveils-hydrogen-power... https://www.volvoce.com/global/en/news-and-events/press-releases/2022/volvo-ce-starts-testing-of-the-worlds-first-prototype-hydrogen-articulated-hauler/ https://www.volvoce.com/global/en/news-and-events/press-rele... https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2022/05/11/daimler-truck-north-america-and-cummins-collaborate-drive-hydrogen-fuel https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2022/05/11/daimler-tru... The main fault with your thinking is that you're fully bought into the false dichotomy of it being BEV versus FCEV. The choice isn't FCEV or BEV, the choice is both FCEV and BEV.

panick21_ 4y ago
And the reality is BEV are better for 95% of cases and history will prove the exact thin it did for cars. Operation cost are just higher with FCEV. And of course they don't even run with green hydrogen yet. Sure have your FCEV trucks, but lets be real, it will likely be 2% of market share in trucking.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  If we're being real then let's acknowledge that in the space of two comments you've gone from FCEVs begin "total failure of mass production" to FCEVs being "2% of market share in trucking". And your claims jump around between FCEV being 1%, 2%, or 5% of the market. All I see here is that you're overexcited and you desperately want your "team" to "win". It's not very rational.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Not sure what is hard to understand, so far FCEV have been a total failure. And the market share will be very low. Sorry I don't have a complex mathematical and simulation model that can predict if it will be 0% or 5%. My best guess is that is likely below 2% but I could be of by 100%. My point is quite simple, the market will be very small. You in comparison have not really provided no convincing argument that it will have a high market share. If you want to assign a 'team' to me then, if you want then I am on team 'lets use energy efficiently' and also on team 'lets not have the government continue to give money to automotive companies to develop hydrogen technology'.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > I am on team 'lets use energy efficiently' If that were true then you'd be advocating for trains and trams, not trucks, buses, or cars. Trains and trams are more energy efficient than automobiles. > also on team 'lets not have the government continue to give money to automotive companies to develop hydrogen technology' But you presumably still want government handouts for BEV and EV charger development.
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        > If that were true then you'd be advocating for trains and trams, not trucks, buses, or cars. I am literally doing that. I love trains and public transport. I'm a huge advocate of increase use in local cargo trains. I am even a fan of cargo trams. In the city where I work Zurich they have started using cargo trams for things like garbage and that's amazing. I'm also a fan of electric trolley lines on highways for trucks rather then pure battery electric. But we are not debating that right now, we are debating battery trucks verses hydrogen trucks. > But you presumably still want government handouts for BEV and EV charger development. Not really actually. I much much prefer that investment going into general urbanism including public personal and cargo transport. Given 75k cars a government handout is insane policy. What I would support carbon tax and also toll booths for driving into cities.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        > I am literally doing that. You literally aren't. > we are debating battery trucks verses hydrogen trucks No, you're making your original mistake again. It's not battery trucks versus hydrogen trucks. The choice isn't BEV or FCEV, the choice is both BEV and FCEV.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        I'm literally doing it in my life, not in this thread. > No, you're making your original mistake again. Technology is almost never 100% dominate, when we are debating 'VHS vs betamax' we don't say 'I don't think VHS won over beta-max because some people still use betamax'. Of course FCEV trucks will exists that's not a question really worth talking about, its trivial. If we are having a quality discussion in terms of technology the debate is about witch of these technology will more fundamentally and systematically transform our society. If we are talking a "VHS vs betamax" the answer is clear and everybody in the world, other then you apparently, understand what we are talking about. And in this case, I have made and argument that battery electric will win the waste majority use cases. And your response is to quibble with the way I'm formulating thing, even when you clearly know that I don't mean no FCEV truck will exist in the future, rather then making any real argument. Bye.

panick21_ 4y ago

And the reality is BEV are better for 95% of cases and history will prove the exact thin it did for cars. Operation cost are just higher with FCEV. And of course they don't even run with green hydrogen yet. Sure have your FCEV trucks, but lets be real, it will likely be 2% of market share in trucking.

clouddrover 4y ago
If we're being real then let's acknowledge that in the space of two comments you've gone from FCEVs begin "total failure of mass production" to FCEVs being "2% of market share in trucking". And your claims jump around between FCEV being 1%, 2%, or 5% of the market. All I see here is that you're overexcited and you desperately want your "team" to "win". It's not very rational.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Not sure what is hard to understand, so far FCEV have been a total failure. And the market share will be very low. Sorry I don't have a complex mathematical and simulation model that can predict if it will be 0% or 5%. My best guess is that is likely below 2% but I could be of by 100%. My point is quite simple, the market will be very small. You in comparison have not really provided no convincing argument that it will have a high market share. If you want to assign a 'team' to me then, if you want then I am on team 'lets use energy efficiently' and also on team 'lets not have the government continue to give money to automotive companies to develop hydrogen technology'.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > I am on team 'lets use energy efficiently' If that were true then you'd be advocating for trains and trams, not trucks, buses, or cars. Trains and trams are more energy efficient than automobiles. > also on team 'lets not have the government continue to give money to automotive companies to develop hydrogen technology' But you presumably still want government handouts for BEV and EV charger development.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      > If that were true then you'd be advocating for trains and trams, not trucks, buses, or cars. I am literally doing that. I love trains and public transport. I'm a huge advocate of increase use in local cargo trains. I am even a fan of cargo trams. In the city where I work Zurich they have started using cargo trams for things like garbage and that's amazing. I'm also a fan of electric trolley lines on highways for trucks rather then pure battery electric. But we are not debating that right now, we are debating battery trucks verses hydrogen trucks. > But you presumably still want government handouts for BEV and EV charger development. Not really actually. I much much prefer that investment going into general urbanism including public personal and cargo transport. Given 75k cars a government handout is insane policy. What I would support carbon tax and also toll booths for driving into cities.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        > I am literally doing that. You literally aren't. > we are debating battery trucks verses hydrogen trucks No, you're making your original mistake again. It's not battery trucks versus hydrogen trucks. The choice isn't BEV or FCEV, the choice is both BEV and FCEV.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        I'm literally doing it in my life, not in this thread. > No, you're making your original mistake again. Technology is almost never 100% dominate, when we are debating 'VHS vs betamax' we don't say 'I don't think VHS won over beta-max because some people still use betamax'. Of course FCEV trucks will exists that's not a question really worth talking about, its trivial. If we are having a quality discussion in terms of technology the debate is about witch of these technology will more fundamentally and systematically transform our society. If we are talking a "VHS vs betamax" the answer is clear and everybody in the world, other then you apparently, understand what we are talking about. And in this case, I have made and argument that battery electric will win the waste majority use cases. And your response is to quibble with the way I'm formulating thing, even when you clearly know that I don't mean no FCEV truck will exist in the future, rather then making any real argument. Bye.