4 ms·

Revirt – Virtualization on Redox OS

54 points by cassepipe 4y ago

voidfunc 4y ago
I keep getting RedoxOS (Unix-like in Rust) and ReactOS (WindowsNT clone) confused whenever I see them.
- resoluteteeth 4y ago
  At least it's not called ReduxOS I guess
sigmonsays 4y ago
anyone know what applications you can run on it ? does it support ELF so we can in theory use it or is this just a research project?
- skyyler 4y ago
  https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-19-programs-libraries.html https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-19-programs-libraries.htm...
  - _8j50 4y ago
    > Redox does not support dynamic-link libraries yet (issue #927), so the libraries that a program uses are statically linked into its compiled binary. Sounds like a feature that shouldn't be "fixed".
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      There exist some cases that don't play nice with full/mandatory static linking, like programs that load extensions by loading them as libraries at runtime.
      - zokier 4y ago
        I don't think system-level static linking precludes loading code for e.g. extensions at runtime. Although admittedly I can't say I know any examples of doing that offhand, and in many ways you'd be building an limited ad-hoc dynamic linking system.
        yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        https://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/927#note_3252 https://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/927#note... implies that redox doesn't currently have dlopen(); while I agree that you hardly need dynamic linking for everything in order to support plugins, my meaning was that you need to allow at least some dynamic linking for it to work.
        bpye 4y ago
        I guess you could include your own dynamic linker in your binary. Mmap the shared object, perform the relocations, etc. It seems like you could write a static library to do this so that the Redox itself doesn't need any specific support?
        zokier 4y ago
        With PIC you wouldn't even need to do relocs?
        bpye 4y ago
        Makes it easier, but you can't entirely avoid relocations. https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/11/03/position-independent-code-pic-in-shared-libraries https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/11/03/position-independen... seems like a decent explanation.
        brendank310 4y ago
        We took this approach with the first version of a from-scratch hypervisor at my last job. Portions of the hypervisor were separated into different shared libraries and we wrote a custom ELF loader to do the relocations. It was interesting but ultimately it was scratched in favor of a large static binary.
cultofmetatron 4y ago
would love to see this ecolve into a linux subsystem (RLS/RSL anyone?). This would be a boon to getting redox on more machines as dev boxes
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  That's basically just nicer integration, right? Some sort of file sharing between guest and host plus some quick way to get a terminal in the guest, and maybe some sort of GUI forwarding if possible.
  - cultofmetatron 4y ago
    that the idea, that would make redox on a framework laptop a serious contender for my daily driver. sure its limited but I have no interest in learning c to do do kernal hacking. I'm learning rust already on the other hand
zokier 4y ago
I must say not researching how bhyve and openbsd vmm work seems like fairly major omission, especially as both are significantly newer projects than kvm and presumably would have learned from it.

54 points by cassepipe 4y ago

voidfunc 4y ago

I keep getting RedoxOS (Unix-like in Rust) and ReactOS (WindowsNT clone) confused whenever I see them.

resoluteteeth 4y ago
At least it's not called ReduxOS I guess

sigmonsays 4y ago

anyone know what applications you can run on it ? does it support ELF so we can in theory use it or is this just a research project?

skyyler 4y ago
https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-19-programs-libraries.html https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-19-programs-libraries.htm...
- _8j50 4y ago
  > Redox does not support dynamic-link libraries yet (issue #927), so the libraries that a program uses are statically linked into its compiled binary. Sounds like a feature that shouldn't be "fixed".
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    There exist some cases that don't play nice with full/mandatory static linking, like programs that load extensions by loading them as libraries at runtime.
    - zokier 4y ago
      I don't think system-level static linking precludes loading code for e.g. extensions at runtime. Although admittedly I can't say I know any examples of doing that offhand, and in many ways you'd be building an limited ad-hoc dynamic linking system.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        https://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/927#note_3252 https://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/927#note... implies that redox doesn't currently have dlopen(); while I agree that you hardly need dynamic linking for everything in order to support plugins, my meaning was that you need to allow at least some dynamic linking for it to work.
        bpye 4y ago
        I guess you could include your own dynamic linker in your binary. Mmap the shared object, perform the relocations, etc. It seems like you could write a static library to do this so that the Redox itself doesn't need any specific support?
        zokier 4y ago
        With PIC you wouldn't even need to do relocs?
        bpye 4y ago
        Makes it easier, but you can't entirely avoid relocations. https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/11/03/position-independent-code-pic-in-shared-libraries https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/11/03/position-independen... seems like a decent explanation.
        brendank310 4y ago
        We took this approach with the first version of a from-scratch hypervisor at my last job. Portions of the hypervisor were separated into different shared libraries and we wrote a custom ELF loader to do the relocations. It was interesting but ultimately it was scratched in favor of a large static binary.

cultofmetatron 4y ago

would love to see this ecolve into a linux subsystem (RLS/RSL anyone?). This would be a boon to getting redox on more machines as dev boxes

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
That's basically just nicer integration, right? Some sort of file sharing between guest and host plus some quick way to get a terminal in the guest, and maybe some sort of GUI forwarding if possible.
- cultofmetatron 4y ago
  that the idea, that would make redox on a framework laptop a serious contender for my daily driver. sure its limited but I have no interest in learning c to do do kernal hacking. I'm learning rust already on the other hand

zokier 4y ago

I must say not researching how bhyve and openbsd vmm work seems like fairly major omission, especially as both are significantly newer projects than kvm and presumably would have learned from it.