6 ms·

The way weather is changing, you just might get to see that happen in about 10 years. If it does happen, expect it to occur during the winter time.

labster 4y ago
How? You push the dust 10000 ft up over the San Jacinto range against the prevailing winds… somehow? You don’t even get a downslope enhancement because the Salton Sea is lower than the Pacific. Or somehow the wind curves through the San Gorgonio Pass and back around to Los Angeles? You and what pressure gradient? I’m a meteorologist, so if you know the dynamics here, please explain.
- kortilla 4y ago
  There isn’t an explanation. It’s a pretty standard doomer trope to claim climate change can cause all sorts of ridiculous weather changes. In “the day after tomorrow”, the air gets so cold that jet fuel freezes the moment the helicopter flies into the cold air.
  - labster 4y ago
    The first three minutes of that movie are accurate, because a meltwater did in fact halt the thermohaline circulation and end an interglacial period in the past. Of course the thermo part dominates over the haline part now, and the rest is garbage. Tropical storm dynamics over the Rocky Mountains, gimme a break. But my whole atm dynamics class went to see it in a theater and it was fun times.
- dendrite9 4y ago
  Would a strong low be enough to help? Sea level isn't really what you care about right, isn't it pressure? And the pass there is <3000ft. I guess I'm thinking about gap winds like what occasionally happens in the Cascades, though that isn't really the same. https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-again-when-mother-of-all.html https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-aga... I assumed the dust from the Salton sea drying was more of a risk to Palm Springs and Mexicali, the general basin I suppose. And maybe places to the east like Phoenix? Looking at a map that seems like a stretch though.
  - labster 4y ago
    The gap is pointed in the wrong direction — it’s a funnel on the west side, but mostly open on the east. So you either need to get particulate matter (ie heavier than air) over a barrier taller than the Appalachians, or the wind from that point needs to be lowest energy source — a strong pressure gradient around that bends from northwest to due west. The first is unlikely because most conditions that cause Santa Ana winds come with a strong inversion layer. The second is less likely due to the synoptic situation — and honestly mesoscale too. The storm tracks driven by the jet stream rarely go far enough south for a strong high pressure to be sitting over Arizona or Sonora. Over Nevada or Utah, you get winds from the Great Basin — the wrong direction. But because Arizona is so hot, the rising air keeps pressure a little lower. Low pressure over the San Gabriels or further north will just pull air through all the canyons and passes — not a very long fetch. It’s definitely a risk to Palm Springs and El Centro. LA is just a breeze too far.
- lightedman 4y ago
  When you get particulate matter that fine, it needs almost no energy to get lifted up way into the atmosphere. the heavier stuff? No, it won't go very far. Lithium dust? It's less dense than the atmosphere. It can go anywhere with not much effort.
  - labster 4y ago
    That’s not how this works. You don’t get individual Lithium molecules, you get LiCl or LiNO3 mixed with other salts in in sizes from grams to micrograms. The largest bits will fall out of air suspension first.
    - lightedman 4y ago
      You can get lithium compounds that are quite light from a brine lake, and the wind can have more than enough energy to shove it around for miles and miles. I've visited brine plants and done direct ground lithium mining. When mining lithium underground, you need very strict respiratory gear, because lithium particulates (especially from the dried clays around lepidolite and tourmaline) are generally fine enough to get past even HEPA filters. And at that size, it doesn't take much in the way of a breeze to send it all over the place. You can watch it just from your lighting and respiratory exhaust. It just hangs there for a good while in almost-dead air. 'Falling out' takes dozens of minutes.

labster 4y ago

How? You push the dust 10000 ft up over the San Jacinto range against the prevailing winds… somehow? You don’t even get a downslope enhancement because the Salton Sea is lower than the Pacific. Or somehow the wind curves through the San Gorgonio Pass and back around to Los Angeles? You and what pressure gradient? I’m a meteorologist, so if you know the dynamics here, please explain.

kortilla 4y ago
There isn’t an explanation. It’s a pretty standard doomer trope to claim climate change can cause all sorts of ridiculous weather changes. In “the day after tomorrow”, the air gets so cold that jet fuel freezes the moment the helicopter flies into the cold air.
- labster 4y ago
  The first three minutes of that movie are accurate, because a meltwater did in fact halt the thermohaline circulation and end an interglacial period in the past. Of course the thermo part dominates over the haline part now, and the rest is garbage. Tropical storm dynamics over the Rocky Mountains, gimme a break. But my whole atm dynamics class went to see it in a theater and it was fun times.
dendrite9 4y ago
Would a strong low be enough to help? Sea level isn't really what you care about right, isn't it pressure? And the pass there is <3000ft. I guess I'm thinking about gap winds like what occasionally happens in the Cascades, though that isn't really the same. https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-again-when-mother-of-all.html https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-aga... I assumed the dust from the Salton sea drying was more of a risk to Palm Springs and Mexicali, the general basin I suppose. And maybe places to the east like Phoenix? Looking at a map that seems like a stretch though.
- labster 4y ago
  The gap is pointed in the wrong direction — it’s a funnel on the west side, but mostly open on the east. So you either need to get particulate matter (ie heavier than air) over a barrier taller than the Appalachians, or the wind from that point needs to be lowest energy source — a strong pressure gradient around that bends from northwest to due west. The first is unlikely because most conditions that cause Santa Ana winds come with a strong inversion layer. The second is less likely due to the synoptic situation — and honestly mesoscale too. The storm tracks driven by the jet stream rarely go far enough south for a strong high pressure to be sitting over Arizona or Sonora. Over Nevada or Utah, you get winds from the Great Basin — the wrong direction. But because Arizona is so hot, the rising air keeps pressure a little lower. Low pressure over the San Gabriels or further north will just pull air through all the canyons and passes — not a very long fetch. It’s definitely a risk to Palm Springs and El Centro. LA is just a breeze too far.
lightedman 4y ago
When you get particulate matter that fine, it needs almost no energy to get lifted up way into the atmosphere. the heavier stuff? No, it won't go very far. Lithium dust? It's less dense than the atmosphere. It can go anywhere with not much effort.
- labster 4y ago
  That’s not how this works. You don’t get individual Lithium molecules, you get LiCl or LiNO3 mixed with other salts in in sizes from grams to micrograms. The largest bits will fall out of air suspension first.
  - lightedman 4y ago
    You can get lithium compounds that are quite light from a brine lake, and the wind can have more than enough energy to shove it around for miles and miles. I've visited brine plants and done direct ground lithium mining. When mining lithium underground, you need very strict respiratory gear, because lithium particulates (especially from the dried clays around lepidolite and tourmaline) are generally fine enough to get past even HEPA filters. And at that size, it doesn't take much in the way of a breeze to send it all over the place. You can watch it just from your lighting and respiratory exhaust. It just hangs there for a good while in almost-dead air. 'Falling out' takes dozens of minutes.