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The child's phone can be set up one way or another. In this hypothetical scheme (described above), a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is igno

The child's phone can be set up one way or another. In this hypothetical scheme (described above), a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly. If phone were in order, phone would not receive anonymous messages. A child receiving a traceable abusive message is quickly resolved, and presumably this kind of abuse is rare, for obvious reasons. Everyone is happy. The school's happy because, under this scheme, they have virtually no work to do in connection with online harassment. The police are happy because fewer harassment cases are being opened (this is true only if most kids set their phone as instructed by the school). Kids are slightly less miserable because online bullying has been made more difficult to pull off. Finally, sticklers like the parent are happy because they can continue to set up their phone "wrong" and receive anonymous abuse. Which the school won't look into and will presumably pass off to the police.

josephcsible 4y ago
> a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly. Imagine if the police requested, but technically didn't mandate, that parents install location tracking apps on their children's phones, and that they then ignored missing persons reports for anyone who didn't do so.
- tailrecursion 4y ago
  - mlyle 4y ago
    Please think about the site guidelines. In any case, I don't think a technical countermeasure that addresses a subset of cases erases the concern. You're presupposing harassment happens by SMS, which maybe was true 10 years ago. How would your solution work with students' frequent use of Discord?
    - tailrecursion 4y ago
      I'm not a Discord user but if it's not possible for a user to block all incoming anonymous messages, Discord use would be disallowed by the school. The simple idea I've given doesn't work if kids can receive messages that aren't immediately traceable. Schoolchildren would have to stop using any service that doesn't have a block-anonymous setting, or, accept that the school will ignore any complaints about anonymous messages. I think the biggest problem with the whole thing is that the kids won't stop using the services they want to use. Apple could theoretically make a system setting to block unidentifiable messages (not phone calls) specifically to protect kids, in all apps on that phone. When you speak of erasing the concern, do you mean the concern about bullying or the concern about going into children's phones and looking at text messages?
      - mlyle 4y ago
        > Schoolchildren would have to stop using any service that doesn't have a block-anonymous setting, or, accept that the school will ignore any complaints about anonymous messages. Schools already heavily discourage Discord use, but most students use it. Most students aren't bullied, either, so the bullied students complying only further isolates them. It's pretty intrinsically anonymous, too. Accounts need to have a phone number on record, so in theory one could subpoena it... but it's not like a correct phone number is needed for everyday interaction. Also, sometimes the bullied student isn't even in the message chain. Taking pictures of students at school, then manipulating them and circulating them online and getting everyone else at school to laugh at the victim student when they return is a common tactic. Then you have Student ABC complaining. Students have been counseled to stop but it keeps happening. ABC believes student DEF did it, and some corroboration that it is student DEF such that the school is now 90% sure that student DEF is behind this. Student ABC is the subject of increasing ridicule and is now doing poorly at school. What's the next step?
        tailrecursion 4y ago
        I agree that accounts on Discord, Instagram, Whatsapp are effectively anonymous and students are not likely to stop using them. As you indicate, the police could follow the required phone number but not the school. Yes, your scenario is one I hadn't considered. I don't know what a good resolution is there; I would suggest that DEF is not necessarily the bad guy. Maybe. But not necessarily. This one is also difficult to punt to the police since there's no clear harassment, yet ABC's torment is increasing. It's sad but I think it's often better for the child to solve the problem himself.

josephcsible 4y ago

> a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly. Imagine if the police requested, but technically didn't mandate, that parents install location tracking apps on their children's phones, and that they then ignored missing persons reports for anyone who didn't do so.

tailrecursion 4y ago
- mlyle 4y ago
  Please think about the site guidelines. In any case, I don't think a technical countermeasure that addresses a subset of cases erases the concern. You're presupposing harassment happens by SMS, which maybe was true 10 years ago. How would your solution work with students' frequent use of Discord?
  - tailrecursion 4y ago
    I'm not a Discord user but if it's not possible for a user to block all incoming anonymous messages, Discord use would be disallowed by the school. The simple idea I've given doesn't work if kids can receive messages that aren't immediately traceable. Schoolchildren would have to stop using any service that doesn't have a block-anonymous setting, or, accept that the school will ignore any complaints about anonymous messages. I think the biggest problem with the whole thing is that the kids won't stop using the services they want to use. Apple could theoretically make a system setting to block unidentifiable messages (not phone calls) specifically to protect kids, in all apps on that phone. When you speak of erasing the concern, do you mean the concern about bullying or the concern about going into children's phones and looking at text messages?
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > Schoolchildren would have to stop using any service that doesn't have a block-anonymous setting, or, accept that the school will ignore any complaints about anonymous messages. Schools already heavily discourage Discord use, but most students use it. Most students aren't bullied, either, so the bullied students complying only further isolates them. It's pretty intrinsically anonymous, too. Accounts need to have a phone number on record, so in theory one could subpoena it... but it's not like a correct phone number is needed for everyday interaction. Also, sometimes the bullied student isn't even in the message chain. Taking pictures of students at school, then manipulating them and circulating them online and getting everyone else at school to laugh at the victim student when they return is a common tactic. Then you have Student ABC complaining. Students have been counseled to stop but it keeps happening. ABC believes student DEF did it, and some corroboration that it is student DEF such that the school is now 90% sure that student DEF is behind this. Student ABC is the subject of increasing ridicule and is now doing poorly at school. What's the next step?
      - tailrecursion 4y ago
        I agree that accounts on Discord, Instagram, Whatsapp are effectively anonymous and students are not likely to stop using them. As you indicate, the police could follow the required phone number but not the school. Yes, your scenario is one I hadn't considered. I don't know what a good resolution is there; I would suggest that DEF is not necessarily the bad guy. Maybe. But not necessarily. This one is also difficult to punt to the police since there's no clear harassment, yet ABC's torment is increasing. It's sad but I think it's often better for the child to solve the problem himself.