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I’m not sure the drying of a man-made lake quite qualifies as an environmental disaster, though the smell certainly isn’t pleasant. But it’s definitely not the

I’m not sure the drying of a man-made lake quite qualifies as an environmental disaster, though the smell certainly isn’t pleasant. But it’s definitely not the largest environmental in California. That would be the destruction of millions of acres of wetlands in the Central Valley from the dry and vanished Tulare Lake northward. Next is the desertifying low Sierra as forests are replaced by chaparral and grasslands somewhat permanently. Third is the desertification of the Owens Valley. Fourth is air pollution which continues to be quite deadly. Fifth is DDT, which is mostly gone but still poses a risk in offshore birds near an undersea dumping ground. Anyway Salton Sea doesn’t even crack the top five anthropogenic natural disasters in California.

Rebelgecko 4y ago
>Fourth is air pollution which continues to be quite deadly That's part of why the Salton Sea drying up would be so disastrous. For the last 100 years, as water as evaporated it's been refilled with runoff from agricultural waste, a nearby superfund site, and other locations that probably should become superfund sites. All that runoff brings fertilizer, pesticides, etc that just sit at the bottom forever... Until the shoreline recedes, the dusty playa blows off and all that nasty stuff goes back into the air. Even with the current state of the Salton Sea, childhood asthma rates are way higher than elsewhere in the state.
lazide 4y ago
Eh, just wait until the giant pesticide laden sand storms start kicking up and blowing into LA.
- labster 4y ago
  Good luck getting a LAX-DAG pressure gradient strong enough to do that.
  - lightedman 4y ago
    The way weather is changing, you just might get to see that happen in about 10 years. If it does happen, expect it to occur during the winter time.
    - labster 4y ago
      How? You push the dust 10000 ft up over the San Jacinto range against the prevailing winds… somehow? You don’t even get a downslope enhancement because the Salton Sea is lower than the Pacific. Or somehow the wind curves through the San Gorgonio Pass and back around to Los Angeles? You and what pressure gradient? I’m a meteorologist, so if you know the dynamics here, please explain.
      - kortilla 4y ago
        There isn’t an explanation. It’s a pretty standard doomer trope to claim climate change can cause all sorts of ridiculous weather changes. In “the day after tomorrow”, the air gets so cold that jet fuel freezes the moment the helicopter flies into the cold air.
        labster 4y ago
        The first three minutes of that movie are accurate, because a meltwater did in fact halt the thermohaline circulation and end an interglacial period in the past. Of course the thermo part dominates over the haline part now, and the rest is garbage. Tropical storm dynamics over the Rocky Mountains, gimme a break. But my whole atm dynamics class went to see it in a theater and it was fun times.
      - dendrite9 4y ago
        Would a strong low be enough to help? Sea level isn't really what you care about right, isn't it pressure? And the pass there is <3000ft. I guess I'm thinking about gap winds like what occasionally happens in the Cascades, though that isn't really the same. https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-again-when-mother-of-all.html https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-aga... I assumed the dust from the Salton sea drying was more of a risk to Palm Springs and Mexicali, the general basin I suppose. And maybe places to the east like Phoenix? Looking at a map that seems like a stretch though.
- pengaru 4y ago
  LA? Palm Springs and the surrounding low-desert communities is more like it, and they're already well aware of this future.
MAGZine 4y ago
It's not just that the dust coming off of the lake smells bad—it's toxic. And given the nature of man-made lakes (i.e., being near other man-made things like homes), it means that the drying of the lake has immediate health effects to the surrounding community. Not to say that the rest of the things you mention aren't ecological disasters as well, but likely none are so immediately hazardous to the surrounding communities. The environmental DDT you complain about, and the air pollution which you complain about are actually both problems that stand to get worse as the lake dries. As it dries, it and exposes more of these chemicals and particulates that were once buried under water--now able to be carried freely by the wind. The same thing is happening around Salt Lake City.
- labster 4y ago
  Paradise, CA would beg to differ, but point taken. I just think it’s important to consider long-term, delocalized damage in addition to points of obvious damage like the Salton Sea.
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  > given the nature of man-made lakes (i.e., being near other man-made things like homes) This lake was man-made by accident (canal wall blew out). It's never been a real population center. But actually, lots of intentionally created reservoirs aren't population centers either.
sidewndr46 4y ago
It isn't really a man made lake. It's a lake in a watershed that has been substantially altered. The lake wouldn't be there naturally in the form that it started off in after the accident. But none of the water would be diverted if it was not for human intervention. It would have followed the natural course of things.
- mullingitover 4y ago
  I mean, absent humans messing around with the Colorado River, Lake Cahuilla[1] would've eventually refilled, and then dried up, and then refilled like it's done for millennia. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cahuilla#Chronology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cahuilla#Chronology
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    Yes, this is my point exactly.

Rebelgecko 4y ago

>Fourth is air pollution which continues to be quite deadly That's part of why the Salton Sea drying up would be so disastrous. For the last 100 years, as water as evaporated it's been refilled with runoff from agricultural waste, a nearby superfund site, and other locations that probably should become superfund sites. All that runoff brings fertilizer, pesticides, etc that just sit at the bottom forever... Until the shoreline recedes, the dusty playa blows off and all that nasty stuff goes back into the air. Even with the current state of the Salton Sea, childhood asthma rates are way higher than elsewhere in the state.

lazide 4y ago

Eh, just wait until the giant pesticide laden sand storms start kicking up and blowing into LA.

labster 4y ago
Good luck getting a LAX-DAG pressure gradient strong enough to do that.
- lightedman 4y ago
  The way weather is changing, you just might get to see that happen in about 10 years. If it does happen, expect it to occur during the winter time.
  - labster 4y ago
    How? You push the dust 10000 ft up over the San Jacinto range against the prevailing winds… somehow? You don’t even get a downslope enhancement because the Salton Sea is lower than the Pacific. Or somehow the wind curves through the San Gorgonio Pass and back around to Los Angeles? You and what pressure gradient? I’m a meteorologist, so if you know the dynamics here, please explain.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      There isn’t an explanation. It’s a pretty standard doomer trope to claim climate change can cause all sorts of ridiculous weather changes. In “the day after tomorrow”, the air gets so cold that jet fuel freezes the moment the helicopter flies into the cold air.
      - labster 4y ago
        The first three minutes of that movie are accurate, because a meltwater did in fact halt the thermohaline circulation and end an interglacial period in the past. Of course the thermo part dominates over the haline part now, and the rest is garbage. Tropical storm dynamics over the Rocky Mountains, gimme a break. But my whole atm dynamics class went to see it in a theater and it was fun times.
    - dendrite9 4y ago
      Would a strong low be enough to help? Sea level isn't really what you care about right, isn't it pressure? And the pass there is <3000ft. I guess I'm thinking about gap winds like what occasionally happens in the Cascades, though that isn't really the same. https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-again-when-mother-of-all.html https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-aga... I assumed the dust from the Salton sea drying was more of a risk to Palm Springs and Mexicali, the general basin I suppose. And maybe places to the east like Phoenix? Looking at a map that seems like a stretch though.
pengaru 4y ago
LA? Palm Springs and the surrounding low-desert communities is more like it, and they're already well aware of this future.

MAGZine 4y ago

It's not just that the dust coming off of the lake smells bad—it's toxic. And given the nature of man-made lakes (i.e., being near other man-made things like homes), it means that the drying of the lake has immediate health effects to the surrounding community. Not to say that the rest of the things you mention aren't ecological disasters as well, but likely none are so immediately hazardous to the surrounding communities. The environmental DDT you complain about, and the air pollution which you complain about are actually both problems that stand to get worse as the lake dries. As it dries, it and exposes more of these chemicals and particulates that were once buried under water--now able to be carried freely by the wind. The same thing is happening around Salt Lake City.

labster 4y ago
Paradise, CA would beg to differ, but point taken. I just think it’s important to consider long-term, delocalized damage in addition to points of obvious damage like the Salton Sea.
foobarbecue 4y ago
> given the nature of man-made lakes (i.e., being near other man-made things like homes) This lake was man-made by accident (canal wall blew out). It's never been a real population center. But actually, lots of intentionally created reservoirs aren't population centers either.

sidewndr46 4y ago

It isn't really a man made lake. It's a lake in a watershed that has been substantially altered. The lake wouldn't be there naturally in the form that it started off in after the accident. But none of the water would be diverted if it was not for human intervention. It would have followed the natural course of things.

mullingitover 4y ago
I mean, absent humans messing around with the Colorado River, Lake Cahuilla[1] would've eventually refilled, and then dried up, and then refilled like it's done for millennia. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cahuilla#Chronology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cahuilla#Chronology
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  Yes, this is my point exactly.