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Very familiar with the situation, the tornado cash code, and the details of the case that are public so far. I appreciate your optimism about freedom of speech

Very familiar with the situation, the tornado cash code, and the details of the case that are public so far. I appreciate your optimism about freedom of speech being unaffected but this is not as cut and dry as an individual running a money laundering business, if that is what you think Tornado Cash is. We do not hold Tor exit nodes responsible for the illicit activity on the dark web and we definitely do not hold Tor developers responsible. Some talking points raised here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTrCA3tEKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTrCA3tEKM

verdverm 4y ago
that source is quite biased, do you have any links to content which is not in the crypto camp? He's actually wrong in that it executes on the ethereum blockchain. It actually executes on Optimism, a layer-2 solution, and they are quite concerned for their own situation. He also says that there aren't people tied to it, but who was collecting the contract fees (beyond gas)?
- randomran01234 4y ago
  Huh? It does execute on Ethereum, and the contracts are still accessible at the same addresses if you run your own node. This is where it was first deployed. It also runs on other EVM chains and L2s including Optimism, Avalanche and others. The first reports on this situation originated from non-crypto sources so it should be easy to find them. A lot of the more in depth discussion is coming from crypto camp because it negatively affects all those users and their privacy.
  - verdverm 4y ago
    Eventually, the crypto community will have to step back from their extreme positions. A human paid to deploy these contracts, a human keeps the fees. This is not a "fully autonomous" contract. It is not an attack open source. There is a difference between writing code and running code, or making it runnable. Blockchain creates new scenarios we hadn't considered before, but common sense can still be applied. A more reasonable assessment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8slTX2tyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8slTX2tyE
    - randomran01234 4y ago
      The sanctions are not targeting a human or a group of humans, they target an open source project and its autonomous smart contracts. Look up the sanctions and project source code yourself. The only fees taken are relay fees, which can be anybody - not necessarily the developers. The conversation steers back to whether it is illegal to run a Tor exit node and whether it is illegal to develop Tor the open source project. Tornado Cash can be republished without relay fees, with zero governance, no token, would that be acceptable?
      - verdverm 4y ago
        To a reasonable person, Tornado Cash is not acceptable, which is something the crypto commodity space will have to accept. Technical details do not matter, Tor has nothing to do with it. The sanctions impact people and their financial transactions, even if there is some code in there. Sure they listed addresses, it's not the first time, and it will be people who get in trouble for interacting with these addresses. That there is "autonomous" code is besides the point, most code is autonomous anyway. If you support evil, there will be repercussions. Your participation in the pool is sufficient material support. We have laws, adjust to obey them or risk getting in trouble.
        randomran01234 4y ago
        Sad and troubling that so many people hearing this will equate privacy with evil and illegal behavior. This is why I am pointing out Tor, because there are many licit users of it.
        verdverm 4y ago
        Tornado wouldn't be needed if Blockchain wasn't so flawed to begin with. Bunch of techno utopians thinking their way is better for everyone and don't want to hear any criticism or that their ideas aren't actually good... smh What is sad is that you use and reuse hyperbole as a talking point

verdverm 4y ago

that source is quite biased, do you have any links to content which is not in the crypto camp? He's actually wrong in that it executes on the ethereum blockchain. It actually executes on Optimism, a layer-2 solution, and they are quite concerned for their own situation. He also says that there aren't people tied to it, but who was collecting the contract fees (beyond gas)?

randomran01234 4y ago
Huh? It does execute on Ethereum, and the contracts are still accessible at the same addresses if you run your own node. This is where it was first deployed. It also runs on other EVM chains and L2s including Optimism, Avalanche and others. The first reports on this situation originated from non-crypto sources so it should be easy to find them. A lot of the more in depth discussion is coming from crypto camp because it negatively affects all those users and their privacy.
- verdverm 4y ago
  Eventually, the crypto community will have to step back from their extreme positions. A human paid to deploy these contracts, a human keeps the fees. This is not a "fully autonomous" contract. It is not an attack open source. There is a difference between writing code and running code, or making it runnable. Blockchain creates new scenarios we hadn't considered before, but common sense can still be applied. A more reasonable assessment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8slTX2tyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA8slTX2tyE
  - randomran01234 4y ago
    The sanctions are not targeting a human or a group of humans, they target an open source project and its autonomous smart contracts. Look up the sanctions and project source code yourself. The only fees taken are relay fees, which can be anybody - not necessarily the developers. The conversation steers back to whether it is illegal to run a Tor exit node and whether it is illegal to develop Tor the open source project. Tornado Cash can be republished without relay fees, with zero governance, no token, would that be acceptable?
    - verdverm 4y ago
      To a reasonable person, Tornado Cash is not acceptable, which is something the crypto commodity space will have to accept. Technical details do not matter, Tor has nothing to do with it. The sanctions impact people and their financial transactions, even if there is some code in there. Sure they listed addresses, it's not the first time, and it will be people who get in trouble for interacting with these addresses. That there is "autonomous" code is besides the point, most code is autonomous anyway. If you support evil, there will be repercussions. Your participation in the pool is sufficient material support. We have laws, adjust to obey them or risk getting in trouble.
      - randomran01234 4y ago
        Sad and troubling that so many people hearing this will equate privacy with evil and illegal behavior. This is why I am pointing out Tor, because there are many licit users of it.
        verdverm 4y ago
        Tornado wouldn't be needed if Blockchain wasn't so flawed to begin with. Bunch of techno utopians thinking their way is better for everyone and don't want to hear any criticism or that their ideas aren't actually good... smh What is sad is that you use and reuse hyperbole as a talking point