4 ms·

Parents are not reliable. It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you".

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you" Then police.
- clcaev 4y ago
  > Then the police. In some regions, this is a bit unrealistic. I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. The bully would target brown kids and property of their parents (e.g. M80 down the chimney, among other atrocities). Everyone in town new the son acted with impunity. Kids our age knew it was worse: the dad actively encouraged his son, and gave him the M80s. No one would talk about it in public, less they be targeted as well.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > > I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. > Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed. Frankly, this isn't really true-- and shows our immense privilege that we can often act with this assumption and have it come true. Most people don't have this experience. And especially a couple decades ago this was much less true for the type of circumstances we're discussing.
      - tomrod 4y ago
        > shows our immense privilege that we can often act with this assumption and have it come true I take this to mean that you don't believe people are capable of understanding the system in which they live, nor advocating for systemic changes. This said, I don't see how this tangent ties to addressing the fact that a community leader abuses their presumed power to protect a bullying child. Outside of doing nothing and letting bad behavior happen, one can address tears in the social contract through a variety of escalation approaches. But the key word is to act. I don't think any human system will protect you without your initiative.
        mlyle 4y ago
        > I take this to mean that you don't believe people are capable of understanding the system in which they live, nor advocating for systemic changes. I'm saying it takes enormous effort to escalate, and one's results in doing so are pretty closely tied to indicators of social class. And then, there's litigation, which is expensive and out of reach of most. It's the only functional mechanism that prevents 55% of the population from oppressing some chunk. edit: I misjudged which thread I was in, and had a bunch more of a reply here that isn't relevant.
        tomrod 4y ago
        > edit: I misjudged which thread I was in, and had a bunch more of a reply here that isn't relevant. No worries. I didn't see the response or anything. When normal channels for escalation are prevented, abnormal channels with heavier consequences become cost-viable options. Reading through a history of Ireland's The Troubles is a reasonable place to consider without the baggage of most current political conflict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
    - rdtwo 4y ago
      That may be true but you need to somehow be higher on the social ladder than the assailant. Good luck if you are getting harassed by police to get them to stop you need to have a direct line to the mayor or at least city council.
      - tomrod 4y ago
        Social "Ladder" is the wrong metaphor. We live in a mesh without a specifically defined ordering of nodes. For example, going to the press is an option.
        rdtwo 4y ago
        If you go to the press that might make the situation worse. The press no longer provide a significant check on other power structures in government
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
vorpalhex 4y ago
Then it's time to escalate. If the "speaking softly" isn't working, it's time for the stick. My aunt had an exchange student in her care. At some point there was an altercation and a boy at school slapped the (female) exchange student. School didn't want to do anything about it, was hemming and hawing. So my aunt phoned the boys mother and explained the situation - and was met with a "well I can't do anything". My aunt simply replied "Well I can have her at the police station this afternoon and file a report, with photos of her bruises. After that I'm going to call my lawyer." Amazingly, the parent of the troublesome student suddenly found the ability to do something! Speaking softly only works of you're willing to use the stick.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  This is not a story I would tell online. When your aunt threatened to go to the police and then failed to follow through, it may have become extortion. You can threaten to sue; you can actually go to the police; you can even tell someone you're going to the police; but what you cannot do is merely threaten to go to the police.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. If I squint my eyes I can sort of see what you're getting at. But on the flip side, this aunt also called the parent to make sure their duty was done. So it would be hard to claim "discipline your child, please, else I will need to file a police report to stop your child's harassment" is extortion.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      I agree this is probably not extortion, but people step close to this line and have been surprised by prosecution or litigation. e.g. pay for the damages or I'm going to the police...
      - candiodari 4y ago

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you" Then police.

clcaev 4y ago
> Then the police. In some regions, this is a bit unrealistic. I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. The bully would target brown kids and property of their parents (e.g. M80 down the chimney, among other atrocities). Everyone in town new the son acted with impunity. Kids our age knew it was worse: the dad actively encouraged his son, and gave him the M80s. No one would talk about it in public, less they be targeted as well.
- tomrod 4y ago
  Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > > I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. > Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed. Frankly, this isn't really true-- and shows our immense privilege that we can often act with this assumption and have it come true. Most people don't have this experience. And especially a couple decades ago this was much less true for the type of circumstances we're discussing.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      > shows our immense privilege that we can often act with this assumption and have it come true I take this to mean that you don't believe people are capable of understanding the system in which they live, nor advocating for systemic changes. This said, I don't see how this tangent ties to addressing the fact that a community leader abuses their presumed power to protect a bullying child. Outside of doing nothing and letting bad behavior happen, one can address tears in the social contract through a variety of escalation approaches. But the key word is to act. I don't think any human system will protect you without your initiative.
      - mlyle 4y ago
        > I take this to mean that you don't believe people are capable of understanding the system in which they live, nor advocating for systemic changes. I'm saying it takes enormous effort to escalate, and one's results in doing so are pretty closely tied to indicators of social class. And then, there's litigation, which is expensive and out of reach of most. It's the only functional mechanism that prevents 55% of the population from oppressing some chunk. edit: I misjudged which thread I was in, and had a bunch more of a reply here that isn't relevant.
        tomrod 4y ago
        > edit: I misjudged which thread I was in, and had a bunch more of a reply here that isn't relevant. No worries. I didn't see the response or anything. When normal channels for escalation are prevented, abnormal channels with heavier consequences become cost-viable options. Reading through a history of Ireland's The Troubles is a reasonable place to consider without the baggage of most current political conflict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
  - rdtwo 4y ago
    That may be true but you need to somehow be higher on the social ladder than the assailant. Good luck if you are getting harassed by police to get them to stop you need to have a direct line to the mayor or at least city council.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      Social "Ladder" is the wrong metaphor. We live in a mesh without a specifically defined ordering of nodes. For example, going to the press is an option.
      - rdtwo 4y ago
        If you go to the press that might make the situation worse. The press no longer provide a significant check on other power structures in government
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

vorpalhex 4y ago

Then it's time to escalate. If the "speaking softly" isn't working, it's time for the stick. My aunt had an exchange student in her care. At some point there was an altercation and a boy at school slapped the (female) exchange student. School didn't want to do anything about it, was hemming and hawing. So my aunt phoned the boys mother and explained the situation - and was met with a "well I can't do anything". My aunt simply replied "Well I can have her at the police station this afternoon and file a report, with photos of her bruises. After that I'm going to call my lawyer." Amazingly, the parent of the troublesome student suddenly found the ability to do something! Speaking softly only works of you're willing to use the stick.

puffoflogic 4y ago
This is not a story I would tell online. When your aunt threatened to go to the police and then failed to follow through, it may have become extortion. You can threaten to sue; you can actually go to the police; you can even tell someone you're going to the police; but what you cannot do is merely threaten to go to the police.
- tomrod 4y ago
  Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. If I squint my eyes I can sort of see what you're getting at. But on the flip side, this aunt also called the parent to make sure their duty was done. So it would be hard to claim "discipline your child, please, else I will need to file a police report to stop your child's harassment" is extortion.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    I agree this is probably not extortion, but people step close to this line and have been surprised by prosecution or litigation. e.g. pay for the damages or I'm going to the police...
    - candiodari 4y ago