5 ms·

Send them back with a legal-looking note "I paid for this phone, legally it is mine and not the child's. As you are a government institution, any request to vie

Send them back with a legal-looking note "I paid for this phone, legally it is mine and not the child's. As you are a government institution, any request to view it either comes with a warrant, or pre-reading payment of $1,000,000 for every character in the message which you intend to read. Your receipt and acknowledgement of this letter counts as a binding agreement to these terms." If they want to play a foolish game, play it right back and watch them falter. My father had lots of fun doing this when I was in school, as most admin-level people don't know what truly is legal and what is not.

dbrueck 4y ago
I really like this because it cuts to the heart of the matter of somebody at that school deeply misunderstanding the limits of their authority, and having it thrown back at them could help them learn, or at least be an amusing way to deal with the situation.
- mlyle 4y ago
  The exact limits of a public school's authority to search mobile devices, to handle events that have partially occurred outside school, has not been established. Here's a nice summary: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1159120.pdf https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1159120.pdf
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    If they search my mobile device, they will deal with police and the court system. Whether the phone is in my posession or my kids is irrelevant.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      As the document shows, many instances of schools searching students' mobile devices without a warrant have been shown to be constitutional in appellate courts.
      - lightedman 4y ago
        There's a key word. "My" As in not the student. MY phone. Whether or not they have it is no excuse. It is MY device. MY rights have been firmly established.
        mlyle 4y ago
        I believe the comment has been edited since I replied, but... in any case. > Whether or not they have it is no excuse. It is MY device. MY rights have been firmly established. If your student takes "your" backpack to school, and there's a reason to search it, the fact that it is "your" property will not affect things much. This is a highly dubious legal theory. Fourth amendment decisions about search of property on one's person basically never have to do with actual ownership. (There are some exceptions, but generally to the detriment of the rights of the person/property being searched).
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        The backpack is a different case - the contents of the backpack are clearly germaine to school property. But that isn't true for a mobile device that contains none-school contents. Eg, does a student bringing their phone to school mean that a school can search their financial records through their mobile banking app? Digital diary? Electronic health records?
        mlyle 4y ago
        > Eg, does a student bringing their phone to school mean that a school can search their financial records through their mobile banking app? Digital diary? Electronic health records? The document that I have linked previously in this thread pretty clearly shows what circumstances have been judged appropriate to search from the outset, and where administrators have overstepped their bounds in continuing. The specific case of social-media-outside-school-hours-but-relating-to-school is untested. "• Assuming a search is justified, to avoid a constitutional violation, school officials must tailor the search to the specific circumstances that prompted the search. In other words, school officials cannot turn a justified search into a “fishing expedition” to discover evidence of wrongdoing. According to Mendoza v. Klein Independent School District (2011), “a continued search must be reasonable and related to the initial reason to search or to any additional ground uncovered during the initial search.”"

dbrueck 4y ago

I really like this because it cuts to the heart of the matter of somebody at that school deeply misunderstanding the limits of their authority, and having it thrown back at them could help them learn, or at least be an amusing way to deal with the situation.

mlyle 4y ago
The exact limits of a public school's authority to search mobile devices, to handle events that have partially occurred outside school, has not been established. Here's a nice summary: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1159120.pdf https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1159120.pdf
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  If they search my mobile device, they will deal with police and the court system. Whether the phone is in my posession or my kids is irrelevant.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    As the document shows, many instances of schools searching students' mobile devices without a warrant have been shown to be constitutional in appellate courts.
    - lightedman 4y ago
      There's a key word. "My" As in not the student. MY phone. Whether or not they have it is no excuse. It is MY device. MY rights have been firmly established.
      - mlyle 4y ago
        I believe the comment has been edited since I replied, but... in any case. > Whether or not they have it is no excuse. It is MY device. MY rights have been firmly established. If your student takes "your" backpack to school, and there's a reason to search it, the fact that it is "your" property will not affect things much. This is a highly dubious legal theory. Fourth amendment decisions about search of property on one's person basically never have to do with actual ownership. (There are some exceptions, but generally to the detriment of the rights of the person/property being searched).
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        The backpack is a different case - the contents of the backpack are clearly germaine to school property. But that isn't true for a mobile device that contains none-school contents. Eg, does a student bringing their phone to school mean that a school can search their financial records through their mobile banking app? Digital diary? Electronic health records?
        mlyle 4y ago
        > Eg, does a student bringing their phone to school mean that a school can search their financial records through their mobile banking app? Digital diary? Electronic health records? The document that I have linked previously in this thread pretty clearly shows what circumstances have been judged appropriate to search from the outset, and where administrators have overstepped their bounds in continuing. The specific case of social-media-outside-school-hours-but-relating-to-school is untested. "• Assuming a search is justified, to avoid a constitutional violation, school officials must tailor the search to the specific circumstances that prompted the search. In other words, school officials cannot turn a justified search into a “fishing expedition” to discover evidence of wrongdoing. According to Mendoza v. Klein Independent School District (2011), “a continued search must be reasonable and related to the initial reason to search or to any additional ground uncovered during the initial search.”"