4 ms·

That would presumably be part of right to repair.

scarface74 4y ago
So they are going to force all Android OEMs to keep their phones updated? Will they get updates as long as iOS? An iPhone 6S from 2015 can still run the latest OS. Apple released a security patch within the last year for phones back to the 2013 iPhone 5s. Going to an Apple store or authorized dealer isn’t as big of a deal to get a $69 battery replacement as it is to ask an Android user to hunt the internet to hopefully find a community supported Android variant that still supports their phone and still not have access to Google Play Services .
- CommanderData 4y ago
  Probably not but it's speculation at the moment. Maybe support for open source firmware versions allowing the user to switch should they need to. In terms of drivers these could be opened but that'd require a huge amount of change from chip manufacturers.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So yeah, good luck with getting Qualcomm and the other chipset manufacturers to open source their drivers and then depending on volunteers to support your phone. Even Google once had to drop support for some Nexus devices because it couldn’t convince chipset makers to support their latest OS on the phone.
    - RalfWausE 4y ago
      With a market as big as the EU it could be pretty simple: "Make it open source... or get lost"
      - 6510 4y ago
        also: here is that multi-million euro fine we promised.
    - 6510 4y ago
      A point system seems fun and pretty good. A manufacturer could be able to score points by providing a date (any date) at which they intend to end support. Perhaps some extra points if they provide information if it will turn into a brick. (just yes/no scores points) More points for extra years and a proper after-life. We have tons of products and services with a TOS stating things like service is not guaranteed, we are not responsible for damages etc Line by line they make the product more terrible because they have good reason to, any kind of support costs money and no one reads the TOS. If we could however express each of those terms into 2-5 numbers on a score card it would all of a sudden become interesting for the manufacturer to review those. Who knows? Maybe if one of our widgets explodes we should pay up to 1000 dollar worth of damages if it means 10 points in responsibility in stead of -100 If replacement parts or even upgrades makes our brand stick out head and shoulders above the competition in official ratings then we should at least have someone do a powerpoint about it, perhaps even a spreadsheet. Scores for existing devices can be improved later. Lowering them could involve fines and/or compensation. Perhaps there is even some market logic to be had: Perhaps if one is stuck with a low score one should pick cheaper parts that have a similar score in stead of bragging about how awesome some components are. I must have purchased more than 50 iphone chargers by now. The expensive ones break just as fast as the cheap ones. Apple should get lots of points for all the parts of their show they got right but also -1000 for the charger quality. Some of the unofficial ones should probably be rated -5000 which is fine if it costs 5 euro. Even if it costs 20 euro I shouldn't be complaining if durability was rated -5000?
    - malermeister 4y ago
      "Good luck getting online trackers to require consent" Except the EU pulled that one off already. When you have one of the biggest markets in the world and the ability to levy high fines, you can make companies do all sorts of things.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Now we have cookie pop up banners that made the web browsing experience worse. You consider that a win?
        _piif 4y ago
        I do. Websites now have to be upfront about their cookie usage and I can make the decision not to use that website (especially if they intentionally make rejecting them as much of a hassle as possible).
        malermeister 4y ago
        Of course I do. I can choose not to be tracked, how could you not consider that a win? If somebody followed you around in real life, watching your every move, would you not consider it a win if he asked you if that makes you feel uncomfortable and they should stop? Would you consider it a worse experience than them just continuing to follow you, unasked?
- saurik 4y ago
  The right to repair is not the same as the right to maintenance or whatever you might want to call forcing the manufacturer to keep updating your device. The issue is when manufacturers make it so that it is impossible for anyone except THEM--actively excluding the so-called "owner" of the device, who somehow doesn't actually have many rights currently (and what thereby needs to be fixed)--to be able to develop fixes or updates.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    What good is the “right to repair” a phone that is insecure?
    - saurik 4y ago
      Using the term "secure" to describe the property "the supposed-owner of the device is disallowed from having any control over the software running on the device" is a perversion of the term; I would prefer the locks on my house be secure in a way that prevents people I don't want to enter my house from getting inside, not in a way that prevents me from daring to using unauthorized furniture or having the gall to replace the door on one of my cabinets... Apple's version of the word "security" seems to often be more about helping developers implement DRM than about helping the user know their data is safe or private.

So they are going to force all Android OEMs to keep their phones updated? Will they get updates as long as iOS? An iPhone 6S from 2015 can still run the latest OS. Apple released a security patch within the last year for phones back to the 2013 iPhone 5s. Going to an Apple store or authorized dealer isn’t as big of a deal to get a $69 battery replacement as it is to ask an Android user to hunt the internet to hopefully find a community supported Android variant that still supports their phone and still not have access to Google Play Services .

CommanderData 4y ago
Probably not but it's speculation at the moment. Maybe support for open source firmware versions allowing the user to switch should they need to. In terms of drivers these could be opened but that'd require a huge amount of change from chip manufacturers.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So yeah, good luck with getting Qualcomm and the other chipset manufacturers to open source their drivers and then depending on volunteers to support your phone. Even Google once had to drop support for some Nexus devices because it couldn’t convince chipset makers to support their latest OS on the phone.
  - RalfWausE 4y ago
    With a market as big as the EU it could be pretty simple: "Make it open source... or get lost"
    - 6510 4y ago
      also: here is that multi-million euro fine we promised.
  - 6510 4y ago
    A point system seems fun and pretty good. A manufacturer could be able to score points by providing a date (any date) at which they intend to end support. Perhaps some extra points if they provide information if it will turn into a brick. (just yes/no scores points) More points for extra years and a proper after-life. We have tons of products and services with a TOS stating things like service is not guaranteed, we are not responsible for damages etc Line by line they make the product more terrible because they have good reason to, any kind of support costs money and no one reads the TOS. If we could however express each of those terms into 2-5 numbers on a score card it would all of a sudden become interesting for the manufacturer to review those. Who knows? Maybe if one of our widgets explodes we should pay up to 1000 dollar worth of damages if it means 10 points in responsibility in stead of -100 If replacement parts or even upgrades makes our brand stick out head and shoulders above the competition in official ratings then we should at least have someone do a powerpoint about it, perhaps even a spreadsheet. Scores for existing devices can be improved later. Lowering them could involve fines and/or compensation. Perhaps there is even some market logic to be had: Perhaps if one is stuck with a low score one should pick cheaper parts that have a similar score in stead of bragging about how awesome some components are. I must have purchased more than 50 iphone chargers by now. The expensive ones break just as fast as the cheap ones. Apple should get lots of points for all the parts of their show they got right but also -1000 for the charger quality. Some of the unofficial ones should probably be rated -5000 which is fine if it costs 5 euro. Even if it costs 20 euro I shouldn't be complaining if durability was rated -5000?
  - malermeister 4y ago
    "Good luck getting online trackers to require consent" Except the EU pulled that one off already. When you have one of the biggest markets in the world and the ability to levy high fines, you can make companies do all sorts of things.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Now we have cookie pop up banners that made the web browsing experience worse. You consider that a win?
      - _piif 4y ago
        I do. Websites now have to be upfront about their cookie usage and I can make the decision not to use that website (especially if they intentionally make rejecting them as much of a hassle as possible).
      - malermeister 4y ago
        Of course I do. I can choose not to be tracked, how could you not consider that a win? If somebody followed you around in real life, watching your every move, would you not consider it a win if he asked you if that makes you feel uncomfortable and they should stop? Would you consider it a worse experience than them just continuing to follow you, unasked?
saurik 4y ago
The right to repair is not the same as the right to maintenance or whatever you might want to call forcing the manufacturer to keep updating your device. The issue is when manufacturers make it so that it is impossible for anyone except THEM--actively excluding the so-called "owner" of the device, who somehow doesn't actually have many rights currently (and what thereby needs to be fixed)--to be able to develop fixes or updates.
- scarface74 4y ago
  What good is the “right to repair” a phone that is insecure?
  - saurik 4y ago
    Using the term "secure" to describe the property "the supposed-owner of the device is disallowed from having any control over the software running on the device" is a perversion of the term; I would prefer the locks on my house be secure in a way that prevents people I don't want to enter my house from getting inside, not in a way that prevents me from daring to using unauthorized furniture or having the gall to replace the door on one of my cabinets... Apple's version of the word "security" seems to often be more about helping developers implement DRM than about helping the user know their data is safe or private.