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> Please do some research before spouting off oil and coal company propaganda. Oh, I did. I could share various German expert studies which all come to the sam

> Please do some research before spouting off oil and coal company propaganda. Oh, I did. I could share various German expert studies which all come to the same conclusion: A combustion engine car has a much better energy efficiency before it is assembled and hits the road. Some even say that the electric car needs to run 150,000-235,000km to offset for the production, numbers vary here, of course.

leobg 4y ago
The same German reports that were touted by members of the Bundestag saying that making a wind turbine cost more energy than that turbine will harvest from the wind over its lifetime?
- blumomo 4y ago
  You’re being funny. Continue.
  - leobg 4y ago
    Father of a university friend of mine was member of the Bundestag CDU party. He was convinced of this (both the father and the friend). It’s one of those “end of discussion arguments” that are too cute to be true. Not only is it not actually true at all. But even if it were true: “Energy” is always not about creating or destroying it, but about moving or transforming it. A pizza might need more calories to make and bake than it contains as nutrients. But you can’t eat firewood. In the same way, even if a windmill merely functioned as a kind of MWh scale battery for the energy invested into its production, it might still be a worthwhile solution for certain use cases.
    - blumomo 4y ago
      I should have made my point clearer. Unlike you, I don't talk about energy in general. I not only refer to the amount of resources required to build electric vehicles, I also refer to the environmental impact of production waste.
      - leobg 4y ago
        As other commenters have pointed out, the total environmental impact of production for electric versus ICE is hard to compare. But I’d say it isn’t even the whole reason d’être for electric cars. It’s also that oil will be running out sooner or later. And, what often gets overlooked in these environmental discussions: It’s never really about the planet. Its about us. About our quality of life. Not even that of future generations. But our own. Getting rid of noise and exhaust fumes in cities is a killer feature in and of itself.
        blumomo 4y ago
        > It’s also that oil will be running out sooner or later. Wondering when that will actually happen. It has been prophesied to have happen multiple times already in the past. And here we go, oil is still there.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Even if that's accurate, the equation changed when Russia started attacking its neighbours.
hnick 4y ago
> Some even say that the electric car needs to run 150,000-235,000km to offset for the production Isn't that about when typical EV battery lifespan is meant to expire (10-20 years, but only warrantied for ~8), so it's due a replacement? Did they take that into account? I know battery recycling schemes exist, just not sure how it stacks up.

leobg 4y ago

The same German reports that were touted by members of the Bundestag saying that making a wind turbine cost more energy than that turbine will harvest from the wind over its lifetime?

blumomo 4y ago
You’re being funny. Continue.
- leobg 4y ago
  Father of a university friend of mine was member of the Bundestag CDU party. He was convinced of this (both the father and the friend). It’s one of those “end of discussion arguments” that are too cute to be true. Not only is it not actually true at all. But even if it were true: “Energy” is always not about creating or destroying it, but about moving or transforming it. A pizza might need more calories to make and bake than it contains as nutrients. But you can’t eat firewood. In the same way, even if a windmill merely functioned as a kind of MWh scale battery for the energy invested into its production, it might still be a worthwhile solution for certain use cases.
  - blumomo 4y ago
    I should have made my point clearer. Unlike you, I don't talk about energy in general. I not only refer to the amount of resources required to build electric vehicles, I also refer to the environmental impact of production waste.
    - leobg 4y ago
      As other commenters have pointed out, the total environmental impact of production for electric versus ICE is hard to compare. But I’d say it isn’t even the whole reason d’être for electric cars. It’s also that oil will be running out sooner or later. And, what often gets overlooked in these environmental discussions: It’s never really about the planet. Its about us. About our quality of life. Not even that of future generations. But our own. Getting rid of noise and exhaust fumes in cities is a killer feature in and of itself.
      - blumomo 4y ago
        > It’s also that oil will be running out sooner or later. Wondering when that will actually happen. It has been prophesied to have happen multiple times already in the past. And here we go, oil is still there.
lostlogin 4y ago
Even if that's accurate, the equation changed when Russia started attacking its neighbours.

hnick 4y ago

> Some even say that the electric car needs to run 150,000-235,000km to offset for the production Isn't that about when typical EV battery lifespan is meant to expire (10-20 years, but only warrantied for ~8), so it's due a replacement? Did they take that into account? I know battery recycling schemes exist, just not sure how it stacks up.