3 ms·

Do you have a citation for your "unsafe" claim? Ungrounded doesn't automatically mean unsafe (or, in the UK, illegal). In the UK we have 3-pin plugs, but diffe

Do you have a citation for your "unsafe" claim? Ungrounded doesn't automatically mean unsafe (or, in the UK, illegal). In the UK we have 3-pin plugs, but different appliances have different rules about grounding; class II double-insulated devices don't need to be grounded (afaik) and this link[1] talking about macbooks says: > "The macbook is a class III appliance, meaning that it is powered by a safety extra-low voltage supply. The low voltage guarantees that coming to contact with energized parts poses no risk in normal circumstances. The actual appliance from a safety perspective isn't the macbook, but the power brick." [1] https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/355824 https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/355824

catnip09 4y ago
I got shocked. Picture of testing device showing the current flow from a cable: https://ibb.co/YbqtgVX https://ibb.co/YbqtgVX Anything attached to the macbook port is causing shock on the exposed parts while it is plugged into that charger. I wouldn't call it safe. If you read some of the bottom answers, they also elaborate on the same topic. Furthermore, I don't live in UK and there can be different electrical standards in terms of wiring. I don't face this issue while using the grounded charger hence it is limited to apple charger which I double checked for missing ground support.
- mirashii 4y ago
  You can also get shocked by rubbing your feet on carpet and touching a doorknob. Are those also unsafe? Should we be panicking about our house? You’ve jumped to a wild and accusatory conclusion.
- RL_Quine 4y ago
  It’s nano amps at a moderately low voltage you’re able to feel, it isn’t unsafe, you just happen to be aware of it. The Apple chargers people often discuss this effect with are some of the most crazily over engineered available in terms of electrical safety and are used in every country on the planet. They have the X class capacitor which causes this effect to meet RF emissions regulations.
  - joecool1029 4y ago
    This is the correct response. Unfortunately it's my concern that rather than work to fix the underlying issue or learn to live with it, we'll continue to get FUD spread by people like OP. Ultimately this will lead to people going out and buying knockoff chargers with a 3rd pin and none of these EM filtering or other safety components. I've seen this for at least 10 years come up again and again, Apple should just sell an India edition Macbook with either a plastic case or a sleeve to avoid people complaining since there's no interest in addressing the cause.
    - rustqt6 4y ago
      - OmarAssadi 4y ago
        While many on HN likely consider it pretty gauche, to say the least, to be racist towards certain minority groups whose struggles Americans tend to have more awareness of, I do still see the subtle—and not-so-subtle—racism and prejudice regularly, especially when it comes to Asian groups, be it towards Arabs, like myself, Indians, Chinese, and many other people. So, I get the frustration. However, that said, even if you intended for others to take your comment rhetorically rather than genuinely transphobically, to highlight how bad what the other person said sounds to you, I think it’s misguided at best; trans people get attacked enough as is, and I don’t think there is any need to bring imageboard slurs [1] into the mix to get the point across. I don’t mean for all of that to come across as “virtue signaling” to distract from the original problem of racism by solely focusing on the transphobic language. The reason why I’m not ripping the parent comment apart or flagging it is that I interpreted it completely differently; I didn’t take it to be subtle racism toward Indians, as if they need to be “fixing the problem” (of not understanding the actual level of danger?), but rather that because Apple is seemingly so uninterested in addressing the issue, sarcastically, they should ship plastic laptops instead. Maybe this is too generous of an interpretation? I don’t know. But yeah, worth considering the other possibilities. [1]: tbh, I’m not sure if we can refer to verbs as slurs or if they are solely nouns. I can’t actually think of another similar verb to compare (Maybe this is my wordcel moment). You get the point, though.
- Bancakes 4y ago
  I'll have to agree with Apple defense force posters who downvoted you on this one, getting tazed is the thrill of using ungrounded appliances. By ignoring safety concerns, they can save on components, which saves on CO2 emissions.
  - jodrellblank 4y ago
    > "By ignoring safety concerns" OSHA have an interest in electrical safety[1] - "Electricity has long been recognized as a serious workplace hazard. OSHA's electrical standards are designed to protect employees exposed to dangers such as electric shock," and they call out ground faults: "The following hazards are the most frequent causes of electrical injuries: contact with power lines, lack of ground-fault protection, path to ground missing or discontinuous". You could be a hero by reporting every macbook using company to OHSA. Let me know when you do, I'd like to read what they decide. [1] https://www.osha.gov/electrical https://www.osha.gov/electrical
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  I have owned a ~2012 metal macbook pro in the past and felt the buzzing as it was charging, and would not call that effect a shock (there was no spark, it never hurt, I never got burned or needed a doctor's visit), so if you are being shocked then your situation sounds worse - and different to the buzz most people are talking about with respect to metal macbooks. (As a kid there were some field telephones[1] in the house, they are ex-military phones you wire directly to each other and they have hand-wound generators which power the other side to ring; we used to play a game of "how long can you touch the contacts while winding it" - that was uncomfortable but had no safety effects that I know of (no burns, bruises, doctor's visits, etc). Even being shocked is not automatically unsafe, although it may be unpleasant and undesirable from any consumer product, let alone premium ones). [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=field+telephone&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=field+telephone&iax=images&...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
rustqt6 4y ago
Did you read the part about "feel a buzz"
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  Yes, and? People put their hands on Van de Graaf generators[1], people buy electric shock buzzers from joke shops[2], people stand on body-fat measuring scales which send electric current through your body to measure its conductivity and estimate fat content, people touch vehicles on humid days and get static electric shocks, people use electric shock to the brain as a therapy[3]. The safety risks I'm aware of are alternating current across your heart strong enough to override the heartbeat signals and make it quiver instead of beat normally (e.g. touching mains power with both hands, current flow through the chest), and enough current flow to cause flesh burns (extreme examples: lightning strike, touching electricity substations). I'm not aware that "feeling a buzz" is inherently a safety risk without any more context or explanation. [1] https://assets.fishersci.com/TFS-Assets/CCG/product-images/FS102482~p.eps-650.jpg https://assets.fishersci.com/TFS-Assets/CCG/product-images/F... [2] https://www.amazon.com/IDS-Electric-Shock-Buzzer-Classic/dp/B00IRURRGA https://www.amazon.com/IDS-Electric-Shock-Buzzer-Classic/dp/... [3] https://www.ted.com/talks/sherwin_nuland_how_electroshock_therapy_changed_me https://www.ted.com/talks/sherwin_nuland_how_electroshock_th...
pyb 4y ago
It's not the first time we hear about people getting electric shock from their Macbooks. And not just in India.

catnip09 4y ago

I got shocked. Picture of testing device showing the current flow from a cable: https://ibb.co/YbqtgVX https://ibb.co/YbqtgVX Anything attached to the macbook port is causing shock on the exposed parts while it is plugged into that charger. I wouldn't call it safe. If you read some of the bottom answers, they also elaborate on the same topic. Furthermore, I don't live in UK and there can be different electrical standards in terms of wiring. I don't face this issue while using the grounded charger hence it is limited to apple charger which I double checked for missing ground support.

mirashii 4y ago
You can also get shocked by rubbing your feet on carpet and touching a doorknob. Are those also unsafe? Should we be panicking about our house? You’ve jumped to a wild and accusatory conclusion.
RL_Quine 4y ago
It’s nano amps at a moderately low voltage you’re able to feel, it isn’t unsafe, you just happen to be aware of it. The Apple chargers people often discuss this effect with are some of the most crazily over engineered available in terms of electrical safety and are used in every country on the planet. They have the X class capacitor which causes this effect to meet RF emissions regulations.
- joecool1029 4y ago
  This is the correct response. Unfortunately it's my concern that rather than work to fix the underlying issue or learn to live with it, we'll continue to get FUD spread by people like OP. Ultimately this will lead to people going out and buying knockoff chargers with a 3rd pin and none of these EM filtering or other safety components. I've seen this for at least 10 years come up again and again, Apple should just sell an India edition Macbook with either a plastic case or a sleeve to avoid people complaining since there's no interest in addressing the cause.
  - rustqt6 4y ago
    - OmarAssadi 4y ago
      While many on HN likely consider it pretty gauche, to say the least, to be racist towards certain minority groups whose struggles Americans tend to have more awareness of, I do still see the subtle—and not-so-subtle—racism and prejudice regularly, especially when it comes to Asian groups, be it towards Arabs, like myself, Indians, Chinese, and many other people. So, I get the frustration. However, that said, even if you intended for others to take your comment rhetorically rather than genuinely transphobically, to highlight how bad what the other person said sounds to you, I think it’s misguided at best; trans people get attacked enough as is, and I don’t think there is any need to bring imageboard slurs [1] into the mix to get the point across. I don’t mean for all of that to come across as “virtue signaling” to distract from the original problem of racism by solely focusing on the transphobic language. The reason why I’m not ripping the parent comment apart or flagging it is that I interpreted it completely differently; I didn’t take it to be subtle racism toward Indians, as if they need to be “fixing the problem” (of not understanding the actual level of danger?), but rather that because Apple is seemingly so uninterested in addressing the issue, sarcastically, they should ship plastic laptops instead. Maybe this is too generous of an interpretation? I don’t know. But yeah, worth considering the other possibilities. [1]: tbh, I’m not sure if we can refer to verbs as slurs or if they are solely nouns. I can’t actually think of another similar verb to compare (Maybe this is my wordcel moment). You get the point, though.
Bancakes 4y ago
I'll have to agree with Apple defense force posters who downvoted you on this one, getting tazed is the thrill of using ungrounded appliances. By ignoring safety concerns, they can save on components, which saves on CO2 emissions.
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  > "By ignoring safety concerns" OSHA have an interest in electrical safety[1] - "Electricity has long been recognized as a serious workplace hazard. OSHA's electrical standards are designed to protect employees exposed to dangers such as electric shock," and they call out ground faults: "The following hazards are the most frequent causes of electrical injuries: contact with power lines, lack of ground-fault protection, path to ground missing or discontinuous". You could be a hero by reporting every macbook using company to OHSA. Let me know when you do, I'd like to read what they decide. [1] https://www.osha.gov/electrical https://www.osha.gov/electrical
jodrellblank 4y ago
I have owned a ~2012 metal macbook pro in the past and felt the buzzing as it was charging, and would not call that effect a shock (there was no spark, it never hurt, I never got burned or needed a doctor's visit), so if you are being shocked then your situation sounds worse - and different to the buzz most people are talking about with respect to metal macbooks. (As a kid there were some field telephones[1] in the house, they are ex-military phones you wire directly to each other and they have hand-wound generators which power the other side to ring; we used to play a game of "how long can you touch the contacts while winding it" - that was uncomfortable but had no safety effects that I know of (no burns, bruises, doctor's visits, etc). Even being shocked is not automatically unsafe, although it may be unpleasant and undesirable from any consumer product, let alone premium ones). [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=field+telephone&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=field+telephone&iax=images&...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

rustqt6 4y ago

Did you read the part about "feel a buzz"

jodrellblank 4y ago
Yes, and? People put their hands on Van de Graaf generators[1], people buy electric shock buzzers from joke shops[2], people stand on body-fat measuring scales which send electric current through your body to measure its conductivity and estimate fat content, people touch vehicles on humid days and get static electric shocks, people use electric shock to the brain as a therapy[3]. The safety risks I'm aware of are alternating current across your heart strong enough to override the heartbeat signals and make it quiver instead of beat normally (e.g. touching mains power with both hands, current flow through the chest), and enough current flow to cause flesh burns (extreme examples: lightning strike, touching electricity substations). I'm not aware that "feeling a buzz" is inherently a safety risk without any more context or explanation. [1] https://assets.fishersci.com/TFS-Assets/CCG/product-images/FS102482~p.eps-650.jpg https://assets.fishersci.com/TFS-Assets/CCG/product-images/F... [2] https://www.amazon.com/IDS-Electric-Shock-Buzzer-Classic/dp/B00IRURRGA https://www.amazon.com/IDS-Electric-Shock-Buzzer-Classic/dp/... [3] https://www.ted.com/talks/sherwin_nuland_how_electroshock_therapy_changed_me https://www.ted.com/talks/sherwin_nuland_how_electroshock_th...

pyb 4y ago

It's not the first time we hear about people getting electric shock from their Macbooks. And not just in India.