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Environmentalism never turns into death cults. Fanaticism did not drive 3M to create PFAS nor DuPont to create DDT, nor did fanaticism drive them to continue it

by xbar 4y ago

Environmentalism never turns into death cults. Fanaticism did not drive 3M to create PFAS nor DuPont to create DDT, nor did fanaticism drive them to continue its use. Your strawmen need work.

zmgsabst 4y ago
> Your strawmen need work. Your reply is a strawman and factually untrue, as I was responding specifically to someone who called for the massive reduction in human population — justifying that with environmentalism. Ironically, you’re the one engaged in fallacies while gaslighting.
- superchroma 4y ago
  You act as if calling for an end to half the humans on this planet is a horror. Posioning all of the humans on this planet is a horror. Filling the ocean with plastic is a horror. People going around talking about topics like white extinction and promoting natalism whilst we've sabotaged fundamental planetary mechanics is a horror. Walking blindfolded into the future and betting on some god to save us, or at least there being some heaven for us to retreat to, as if we deserve it, or just hoping for the best whilst everything falls apart around us is a horror. Believing in the myth of infinite growth is a horror. Reducing the human population isn't a horror, it's a mercy, and not just for us. It buys us time to try and resolve the dysfunction of our species. We are talking about potentially giving every new child an eventual death sentence with inevitable liver cancer here, and if that's what this shit does to people, take a beat and think about what it'll do to the things we eat.
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    This is a false dichotomy. > You act as if calling for an end to half the humans on this planet is a horror. > Reducing the human population isn't a horror, it's a mercy, and not just for us. This is a horror on par with Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, or Maoist China — and why I called it a “death cult”. > We are talking about potentially giving every new child an eventual death sentence with inevitable liver cancer here …so your solution is to definitely abuse humans so badly they don’t breed? That doesn’t make sense: why is potential cancer worse than definitely ruining the reproductive health of the population? Your cure sounds worse than the disease. > It buys us time to try and resolve the dysfunction of our species. The only dysfunction I see is people like yourself trying to repeat the worst horrors of human history because this time fanatic authoritarianism won’t end in tragedy.
    - superchroma 4y ago
      Fanatic natalism and capitalism already created tragedy. We're talking cure now and nobody ever likes how the medicine tastes. That said, the only person invoking death camps and gulags here is you.
switchbak 4y ago
Three is absolutely a Malthusian segment of the environmental movement, that would like for there to be far fewer (or no) people at all. I assume that's what they meant by "death cults" above. If you're going to deny its existence outright, do you have something to back up that claim? The fact that corporations have willfully committed these actions over the years, and lobbied to continue doing so doesn't mean that there isn't some concerning elements of the environmental movement. It's not a black and white situation.

by xbar 4y ago

Environmentalism never turns into death cults. Fanaticism did not drive 3M to create PFAS nor DuPont to create DDT, nor did fanaticism drive them to continue its use. Your strawmen need work.

zmgsabst 4y ago

> Your strawmen need work. Your reply is a strawman and factually untrue, as I was responding specifically to someone who called for the massive reduction in human population — justifying that with environmentalism. Ironically, you’re the one engaged in fallacies while gaslighting.

superchroma 4y ago
You act as if calling for an end to half the humans on this planet is a horror. Posioning all of the humans on this planet is a horror. Filling the ocean with plastic is a horror. People going around talking about topics like white extinction and promoting natalism whilst we've sabotaged fundamental planetary mechanics is a horror. Walking blindfolded into the future and betting on some god to save us, or at least there being some heaven for us to retreat to, as if we deserve it, or just hoping for the best whilst everything falls apart around us is a horror. Believing in the myth of infinite growth is a horror. Reducing the human population isn't a horror, it's a mercy, and not just for us. It buys us time to try and resolve the dysfunction of our species. We are talking about potentially giving every new child an eventual death sentence with inevitable liver cancer here, and if that's what this shit does to people, take a beat and think about what it'll do to the things we eat.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  This is a false dichotomy. > You act as if calling for an end to half the humans on this planet is a horror. > Reducing the human population isn't a horror, it's a mercy, and not just for us. This is a horror on par with Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, or Maoist China — and why I called it a “death cult”. > We are talking about potentially giving every new child an eventual death sentence with inevitable liver cancer here …so your solution is to definitely abuse humans so badly they don’t breed? That doesn’t make sense: why is potential cancer worse than definitely ruining the reproductive health of the population? Your cure sounds worse than the disease. > It buys us time to try and resolve the dysfunction of our species. The only dysfunction I see is people like yourself trying to repeat the worst horrors of human history because this time fanatic authoritarianism won’t end in tragedy.
  - superchroma 4y ago
    Fanatic natalism and capitalism already created tragedy. We're talking cure now and nobody ever likes how the medicine tastes. That said, the only person invoking death camps and gulags here is you.

switchbak 4y ago

Three is absolutely a Malthusian segment of the environmental movement, that would like for there to be far fewer (or no) people at all. I assume that's what they meant by "death cults" above. If you're going to deny its existence outright, do you have something to back up that claim? The fact that corporations have willfully committed these actions over the years, and lobbied to continue doing so doesn't mean that there isn't some concerning elements of the environmental movement. It's not a black and white situation.