5 ms·

"Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting [...] a roof over their head that they don't like" Do you have a reference to back up this stat

by joe__f 4y ago

"Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting [...] a roof over their head that they don't like" Do you have a reference to back up this statement? Have you ever spoken to any homeless people and asked them what they think about this? Clearly there are some limits in which your statement holds; I would prefer to be homeless in a city in the UK than held in a forced labour camp with housing for example. I think once you include some basic minimum requirements very few people would prefer to be homeless.

seibelj 4y ago
Every single homeless person in Boston can get free transitional housing but the Mass and Cass street area is still packed with tents and drug users
- solfox 4y ago
  Yet isn't this more due to control and oversight versus desire or location? Perhaps the options that are presented to them as "free" contain other entanglements that tips the scales towards camping?
- criddell 4y ago
  What is required of the homeless to qualify? Often there are big strings attached like you have to be sober or at least be working towards that. They often don't want to help addicts who don't want to quit using.
  - seibelj 4y ago
    Right there will never be something good enough. They want an amazing hotel they can shoot up and congregate and party in with all of their druggie friends. It’s totally reasonable to expect a bare minimum of compliance in order to get taxpayer funded housing. I don’t know if you have friends or family who are heroin addicts but I can promise you they are not pleasant people to be around, especially when they start stealing to fund their habit.
  - taxcoder 4y ago
    Do you think it is wrong for society to have contractual requirements such as "I will help you if you are trying to help yourself"?
    - SEJeff 4y ago
      Counterpoint: do you think it’s wrong to let the sick stay sick and not help them? Addiction is a sickness and often requires a lot of help addicts can not themselves do to quit. You can’t expect someone who isn’t able to help themselves help themselves. This is the crux of the issue. Also, people in half way houses or assisted living absolutely should be sober so they don’t cause anyone else in the facility to regress, but it is a hard problem. These people often need intense rehabilitation and these programs are neither quick or cheap. Someone has to run the program and success is never guaranteed. Mandatory government funded rehab would be AMAZING, but imagine how many people would crow about their “freedom” to shoot up meth is being infringed if that happened at the federal level. This is a very hard problem and there aren’t easy solutions. My opinion changed a bit after I married a girl with a masters in social work. This is very draining heavy emotional capital work.
      - taxcoder 4y ago
        Agreed we need to help the sick, I didn't make that clear enough. I was trying to understand if the previous poster thought it was wrong to say "Here is housing and a program. You can't have the housing without the program." After working with foster and adoption of two preteens from an unhealthy home situation my opinions have changed a bit as well. Compassion is hard - it should push us to do. Now if I can just work on being less blunt ...
        SEJeff 4y ago
        Empathy is the solution to many of society's current problems. That and more social workers.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - 4y ago
colinmhayes 4y ago
I have spoken to more than a couple homeless people that feel this way. Obviously “roof over their head they don’t like” is the big qualifier here. Many of the homeless I spoke to refused shelters because their drugs were stolen/confiscated. If you could get them into an apartment where no one bothered them they’d take it, but that’s not an option.
modriano 4y ago
I was also put off by the phrase "...roof over their head that they don't like", but the statement can be steelman'd into something I agree with and think is correct. Empirically homeless shelters operating below capacity and cheap housing in far off locations exist but we still see homeless people in tents under bridges and elsewhere. I've seen numerous reports where homeless people say they don't use shelters because they're unsafe or the shelter's rules are too restrictive (eg "The shelter where I stayed briefly, you had to be in line. They technically opened at 7:00, but you had to be in line at 4:30 in the afternoon to be able to get your bed back..." [0]). I guess I don't know what homeless people would choose if they were offered a home in a far off town or something, but AFAIK, the only general options presented to homeless people are shelters, homelessness, and maybe social services in cities willing to work on the problem. [0] https://www.npr.org/2012/12/06/166666265/why-some-homeless-choose-the-streets-over-shelters https://www.npr.org/2012/12/06/166666265/why-some-homeless-c...
SEJeff 4y ago
It’s common for homeless in the US to not want to stay at shelters at least due to not agreeing with the requirements (being sober) or they think they’re dirty and might have bed bugs. I’ve always tried to get food for betters outside of grocery stores or pharmacies whenever they’re asking for money.
leosarev 4y ago
In Russia there is depressing Vorkuta city, where prices for flats are literally near zero. :-) It's clear indicator that most people prefer to be homeless than own 2 bedroom flat in Vorkuta :-)))

by joe__f 4y ago

seibelj 4y ago

Every single homeless person in Boston can get free transitional housing but the Mass and Cass street area is still packed with tents and drug users

solfox 4y ago
Yet isn't this more due to control and oversight versus desire or location? Perhaps the options that are presented to them as "free" contain other entanglements that tips the scales towards camping?
criddell 4y ago
What is required of the homeless to qualify? Often there are big strings attached like you have to be sober or at least be working towards that. They often don't want to help addicts who don't want to quit using.
- seibelj 4y ago
  Right there will never be something good enough. They want an amazing hotel they can shoot up and congregate and party in with all of their druggie friends. It’s totally reasonable to expect a bare minimum of compliance in order to get taxpayer funded housing. I don’t know if you have friends or family who are heroin addicts but I can promise you they are not pleasant people to be around, especially when they start stealing to fund their habit.
- taxcoder 4y ago
  Do you think it is wrong for society to have contractual requirements such as "I will help you if you are trying to help yourself"?
  - SEJeff 4y ago
    Counterpoint: do you think it’s wrong to let the sick stay sick and not help them? Addiction is a sickness and often requires a lot of help addicts can not themselves do to quit. You can’t expect someone who isn’t able to help themselves help themselves. This is the crux of the issue. Also, people in half way houses or assisted living absolutely should be sober so they don’t cause anyone else in the facility to regress, but it is a hard problem. These people often need intense rehabilitation and these programs are neither quick or cheap. Someone has to run the program and success is never guaranteed. Mandatory government funded rehab would be AMAZING, but imagine how many people would crow about their “freedom” to shoot up meth is being infringed if that happened at the federal level. This is a very hard problem and there aren’t easy solutions. My opinion changed a bit after I married a girl with a masters in social work. This is very draining heavy emotional capital work.
    - taxcoder 4y ago
      Agreed we need to help the sick, I didn't make that clear enough. I was trying to understand if the previous poster thought it was wrong to say "Here is housing and a program. You can't have the housing without the program." After working with foster and adoption of two preteens from an unhealthy home situation my opinions have changed a bit as well. Compassion is hard - it should push us to do. Now if I can just work on being less blunt ...
      - SEJeff 4y ago
        Empathy is the solution to many of society's current problems. That and more social workers.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 4y ago

colinmhayes 4y ago

I have spoken to more than a couple homeless people that feel this way. Obviously “roof over their head they don’t like” is the big qualifier here. Many of the homeless I spoke to refused shelters because their drugs were stolen/confiscated. If you could get them into an apartment where no one bothered them they’d take it, but that’s not an option.

modriano 4y ago

I was also put off by the phrase "...roof over their head that they don't like", but the statement can be steelman'd into something I agree with and think is correct. Empirically homeless shelters operating below capacity and cheap housing in far off locations exist but we still see homeless people in tents under bridges and elsewhere. I've seen numerous reports where homeless people say they don't use shelters because they're unsafe or the shelter's rules are too restrictive (eg "The shelter where I stayed briefly, you had to be in line. They technically opened at 7:00, but you had to be in line at 4:30 in the afternoon to be able to get your bed back..." [0]). I guess I don't know what homeless people would choose if they were offered a home in a far off town or something, but AFAIK, the only general options presented to homeless people are shelters, homelessness, and maybe social services in cities willing to work on the problem. [0] https://www.npr.org/2012/12/06/166666265/why-some-homeless-choose-the-streets-over-shelters https://www.npr.org/2012/12/06/166666265/why-some-homeless-c...

SEJeff 4y ago

It’s common for homeless in the US to not want to stay at shelters at least due to not agreeing with the requirements (being sober) or they think they’re dirty and might have bed bugs. I’ve always tried to get food for betters outside of grocery stores or pharmacies whenever they’re asking for money.

leosarev 4y ago

In Russia there is depressing Vorkuta city, where prices for flats are literally near zero. :-) It's clear indicator that most people prefer to be homeless than own 2 bedroom flat in Vorkuta :-)))