5 ms·

> Imagine if we did the same thing with, say, water: privatized it and then "democratized" ownership of it. We're watching this happen before our eyes.

feet 4y ago
Nestlé is at the forefront of taking over a water supply and selling it back to the locals to enrich the corporation at the expense of the humans who live there
- missedthecue 4y ago
  If you don't like that, the logical thing is to support water commiditization so that nestle doesn't get it for free.
  - feet 4y ago
    Water commodification is exactly what Nestlé is doing What we need is regulation to stop them from doing that, not a different company selling and capturing the water. That's just more of the same thing which solves nothing.
    - missedthecue 4y ago
      Nestle gets all the water they want for a $200 permit. That's not water commodification. They sell bottled water, but that's also not commodification of water. Almost 0% of US water consumption comes from a plastic bottle, and you can't commodify a market with ~0% market share.
      - feet 4y ago
        Your statement is false, what Nestlé does is literally the definition of commodification Commodification definition: the act or fact of turning something into an item that can be bought and sold: The commodification of water means that access is available only to those who can pay. >https://www.dictionary.com/browse/commodification https://www.dictionary.com/browse/commodification Nobody mentioned the US. Nestlé does this in various other countries. >https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-n...
        missedthecue 4y ago
        Nestle sells portable bottles. That's what differentiates their product from the tap.
        feet 4y ago
        They sell bottles filled with water, not everyone has access to tap water and Nestlé captures so much of a water source that locals don't have access to the freely available water that they did before. Are you not aware that fresh water from wells depletes sources? The water table is limited. You seem to be intentionally twisting the scenario in a disingenuous manner. Nestlé is selling water that was once free to a populace.
        missedthecue 4y ago
        If they didn't have access to freely available water, it cannot be true that Nestle is selling water that was once free to the populace. Your assertions are contradictory.
        feet 4y ago
        >they didn't have access to freely available water Please quote my comment where I stated this. I don't believe you have attempted to comprehend my statements, nor have you read the article I posted and are just making baseless assertions to be contradictory.
iso1631 4y ago
In most of the UK (England and Wales), water was privitised in 1989 General consensus even amongst the right-wing media and the media that aims to appeal to conservative voters [1-4] seems to be is that we have drought and hosepipe bans while the private companies pay out £1b dividends and it's not right. [1] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/54e5542a-1a6b-11ed-b1f4-627a202c7457?shareToken=13e034b630fe5a5e0fd5b52109f3b865 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/54e5542a-1a6b-11ed-b1f4-6... [2] https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/20604864.privatisation-water-rail-disaster/ https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/20604864.privatisatio... [3] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/37ddb10c-157e-11ed-a669-519b582f91b7?shareToken=b2162aa5536851c84807ca89fe130f69 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/37ddb10c-157e-11ed-a669-5... [4] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2022/08/09/water-firms-sold-reservoirs-could-have-eased-drought/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2022/08/09/water-fir...
- dazc 4y ago
  Showing my age, but back in 1976, where I lived, water was being brought in by tanker day and night during the hottest summer on record. I'm not saying privatisation has been a glowing success but supply issues were much worse in the days of nationalisation, especially when you factor in the population growth over the past few decades.
  - nosianu 4y ago
    There is the huge confounder that everywhere in the developed world - and even in the less developed world like East Germany, where I grew up, a lot of infrastructure was added and improved over the decades after WWII and it has nothing whatsoever to do with private vs. government (or, in the case of Germany mostly, for water and energy) municipal ownership. Many houses had coal stoves and privies a few decades ago, that is simply how it was, not a question of "we need to privatize water and heating". Here in Germany especially water is usually operated and owned by local municipally owned enterprises, and I'd say it's a huge success. Even my home district in East Germany (GDR) build a huge water infrastructure project with a dam, many kilometers of large pipes, and one or more (don't know exactly how many) water processing plants, definitely nothing privately owned there. People including those in power just put a very high value on having enough and reliable supply of water in Germany, and it has nothing to do with private vs. government, given what we have now with mostly local and state governments providing. In recent years a lot more private companies entered the picture, but I'm not sure about ownership (municipalities also operate their own companies), in the end it's an attitude question more so than blaming it of "private better". You can have success or failure with either model.
glyphy177 4y ago
You won't have to imagine for long.

feet 4y ago

Nestlé is at the forefront of taking over a water supply and selling it back to the locals to enrich the corporation at the expense of the humans who live there

missedthecue 4y ago
If you don't like that, the logical thing is to support water commiditization so that nestle doesn't get it for free.
- feet 4y ago
  Water commodification is exactly what Nestlé is doing What we need is regulation to stop them from doing that, not a different company selling and capturing the water. That's just more of the same thing which solves nothing.
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    Nestle gets all the water they want for a $200 permit. That's not water commodification. They sell bottled water, but that's also not commodification of water. Almost 0% of US water consumption comes from a plastic bottle, and you can't commodify a market with ~0% market share.
    - feet 4y ago
      Your statement is false, what Nestlé does is literally the definition of commodification Commodification definition: the act or fact of turning something into an item that can be bought and sold: The commodification of water means that access is available only to those who can pay. >https://www.dictionary.com/browse/commodification https://www.dictionary.com/browse/commodification Nobody mentioned the US. Nestlé does this in various other countries. >https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-n...
      - missedthecue 4y ago
        Nestle sells portable bottles. That's what differentiates their product from the tap.
        feet 4y ago
        They sell bottles filled with water, not everyone has access to tap water and Nestlé captures so much of a water source that locals don't have access to the freely available water that they did before. Are you not aware that fresh water from wells depletes sources? The water table is limited. You seem to be intentionally twisting the scenario in a disingenuous manner. Nestlé is selling water that was once free to a populace.
        missedthecue 4y ago
        If they didn't have access to freely available water, it cannot be true that Nestle is selling water that was once free to the populace. Your assertions are contradictory.
        feet 4y ago
        >they didn't have access to freely available water Please quote my comment where I stated this. I don't believe you have attempted to comprehend my statements, nor have you read the article I posted and are just making baseless assertions to be contradictory.

iso1631 4y ago

In most of the UK (England and Wales), water was privitised in 1989 General consensus even amongst the right-wing media and the media that aims to appeal to conservative voters [1-4] seems to be is that we have drought and hosepipe bans while the private companies pay out £1b dividends and it's not right. [1] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/54e5542a-1a6b-11ed-b1f4-627a202c7457?shareToken=13e034b630fe5a5e0fd5b52109f3b865 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/54e5542a-1a6b-11ed-b1f4-6... [2] https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/20604864.privatisation-water-rail-disaster/ https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/20604864.privatisatio... [3] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/37ddb10c-157e-11ed-a669-519b582f91b7?shareToken=b2162aa5536851c84807ca89fe130f69 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/37ddb10c-157e-11ed-a669-5... [4] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2022/08/09/water-firms-sold-reservoirs-could-have-eased-drought/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2022/08/09/water-fir...

dazc 4y ago
Showing my age, but back in 1976, where I lived, water was being brought in by tanker day and night during the hottest summer on record. I'm not saying privatisation has been a glowing success but supply issues were much worse in the days of nationalisation, especially when you factor in the population growth over the past few decades.
- nosianu 4y ago
  There is the huge confounder that everywhere in the developed world - and even in the less developed world like East Germany, where I grew up, a lot of infrastructure was added and improved over the decades after WWII and it has nothing whatsoever to do with private vs. government (or, in the case of Germany mostly, for water and energy) municipal ownership. Many houses had coal stoves and privies a few decades ago, that is simply how it was, not a question of "we need to privatize water and heating". Here in Germany especially water is usually operated and owned by local municipally owned enterprises, and I'd say it's a huge success. Even my home district in East Germany (GDR) build a huge water infrastructure project with a dam, many kilometers of large pipes, and one or more (don't know exactly how many) water processing plants, definitely nothing privately owned there. People including those in power just put a very high value on having enough and reliable supply of water in Germany, and it has nothing to do with private vs. government, given what we have now with mostly local and state governments providing. In recent years a lot more private companies entered the picture, but I'm not sure about ownership (municipalities also operate their own companies), in the end it's an attitude question more so than blaming it of "private better". You can have success or failure with either model.

glyphy177 4y ago

You won't have to imagine for long.