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Otherwise it would lead to a concentration of wealth among the few, and increase the gap between the rich and the poor. And are you asking why personal freedom

Otherwise it would lead to a concentration of wealth among the few, and increase the gap between the rich and the poor. And are you asking why personal freedom is so important to people?

dominotw 4y ago
People can invest in stocks/index funds. Why is real estate only route to 'personal freedom'.
- djohnston 4y ago
  Because you need a home to live in, the same can't be said of securities.
  - dominotw 4y ago
    i don't have 'personal freedom' because i rent ?
    - notpachet 4y ago
      You certainly have less of it.
      - prvit 4y ago
        Surely it's the other way around. The renter has far more freedom, they can easily pack up their things and go. The renter has also has far fewer responsibilities than the owner.
        notpachet 4y ago
        Then by extension, homeless people have the most personal freedom of anyone. What kind of ridiculous argument is this?
        prvit 4y ago
        I think yours is the ridiculous argument, how are homeless people relevant to this conversation?
        notpachet 4y ago
        They have more "freedom" than renters, right? They can pack up and head somewhere else whenever they want (as they're not bound by a lease), and they have absolutely zero responsibilities to anyone other than to obey the law. But they have the least personal financial freedom, is my point.
        prvit 4y ago
        How do homeowners have more personal financial freedom than renters with their money in index funds?
        djohnston 4y ago
        They would still need to complete their lease or pay the penalty, I dont think 'easily' is the appropriate adverb. Besides homeowners can also do this, it's called selling your home, people do it all the time albeit with a bit more paperwork than the renter. The lack of freedom derives not from imaginary mobility constraints, but from the provision of shelter coming from a 3rd party landlord. Your roof is resting on the whims of a profit motive for someone who owes you nothing. You can't see how that presents a fundamental lack of independence?
        dominotw 4y ago
        > whims of a profit motive for someone who owes you nothing. what whims? I have a lease for X months. Yes all bets are off after that. No one is acting on whims. Homeowners are also at the whims of cost of labor to make essential repairs , cost of necessary appliances , property tax increases, employment opportunities near your home if you lose your job and whims of the banks that can foreclose your home. Nothing in life is a guarantee . Owing mortgage payments to a bank vs renting isn't more freedom. Renters can become homeowners if they want and homeowners are forced to become renters ( remember 2009 ) . So i don't really understand what 'freedom' being a homeowner gives you. Your financial status give you freedom not your home ownership status.
    - webmobdev 4y ago
      Yes, you have less personal freedom to make changes to the house and your own lifestyle if you don't own the house.
  - prvit 4y ago
    Nothing wrong with renting, economies of scale make it cheaper than owning unless the government decides to ruin everything. (London vs Paris is a great example of this)
    - andrepd 4y ago
      How can renting from a middleman who owns it be possibly cheaper than owning it directly? Unless the middleman is a charity which rents at a loss.
      - prvit 4y ago
        Middleman maintaining 100 apartments can do so for less money per unit than the guy maintaining a single apartment.
        ryanmercer 4y ago
        Exactly. Economies of scale + the simple fact of things like a roof for 2+ story block of apartments is going to be far cheaper to replace than a roof for the same number of houses as units.
        andrepd 4y ago
        I wasn't aware that you couldn't own flats.
        alexashka 4y ago
        Wat? Is this skipping the real world of every condominium building apartment owner paying a maintenance fee and having a say in where/how the money gets allocated? When you rent, you just give the power of choice away and have misaligned incentives (when you own, you give more of a shit than when you are merely extracting profit)
        prvit 4y ago
        No, you’re ignoring all the maintenance your landlord would usually be responsible for. Things like internal plumbing, internal wiring, air conditioning and appliances.

Otherwise it would lead to a concentration of wealth among the few, and increase the gap between the rich and the poor. And are you asking why personal freedom is so important to people?

dominotw 4y ago

People can invest in stocks/index funds. Why is real estate only route to 'personal freedom'.

djohnston 4y ago
Because you need a home to live in, the same can't be said of securities.
- dominotw 4y ago
  i don't have 'personal freedom' because i rent ?
  - notpachet 4y ago
    You certainly have less of it.
    - prvit 4y ago
      Surely it's the other way around. The renter has far more freedom, they can easily pack up their things and go. The renter has also has far fewer responsibilities than the owner.
      - notpachet 4y ago
        Then by extension, homeless people have the most personal freedom of anyone. What kind of ridiculous argument is this?
        prvit 4y ago
        I think yours is the ridiculous argument, how are homeless people relevant to this conversation?
        notpachet 4y ago
        They have more "freedom" than renters, right? They can pack up and head somewhere else whenever they want (as they're not bound by a lease), and they have absolutely zero responsibilities to anyone other than to obey the law. But they have the least personal financial freedom, is my point.
        prvit 4y ago
        How do homeowners have more personal financial freedom than renters with their money in index funds?
      - djohnston 4y ago
        They would still need to complete their lease or pay the penalty, I dont think 'easily' is the appropriate adverb. Besides homeowners can also do this, it's called selling your home, people do it all the time albeit with a bit more paperwork than the renter. The lack of freedom derives not from imaginary mobility constraints, but from the provision of shelter coming from a 3rd party landlord. Your roof is resting on the whims of a profit motive for someone who owes you nothing. You can't see how that presents a fundamental lack of independence?
        dominotw 4y ago
        > whims of a profit motive for someone who owes you nothing. what whims? I have a lease for X months. Yes all bets are off after that. No one is acting on whims. Homeowners are also at the whims of cost of labor to make essential repairs , cost of necessary appliances , property tax increases, employment opportunities near your home if you lose your job and whims of the banks that can foreclose your home. Nothing in life is a guarantee . Owing mortgage payments to a bank vs renting isn't more freedom. Renters can become homeowners if they want and homeowners are forced to become renters ( remember 2009 ) . So i don't really understand what 'freedom' being a homeowner gives you. Your financial status give you freedom not your home ownership status.
  - webmobdev 4y ago
    Yes, you have less personal freedom to make changes to the house and your own lifestyle if you don't own the house.
- prvit 4y ago
  Nothing wrong with renting, economies of scale make it cheaper than owning unless the government decides to ruin everything. (London vs Paris is a great example of this)
  - andrepd 4y ago
    How can renting from a middleman who owns it be possibly cheaper than owning it directly? Unless the middleman is a charity which rents at a loss.
    - prvit 4y ago
      Middleman maintaining 100 apartments can do so for less money per unit than the guy maintaining a single apartment.
      - ryanmercer 4y ago
        Exactly. Economies of scale + the simple fact of things like a roof for 2+ story block of apartments is going to be far cheaper to replace than a roof for the same number of houses as units.
        andrepd 4y ago
        I wasn't aware that you couldn't own flats.
      - alexashka 4y ago
        Wat? Is this skipping the real world of every condominium building apartment owner paying a maintenance fee and having a say in where/how the money gets allocated? When you rent, you just give the power of choice away and have misaligned incentives (when you own, you give more of a shit than when you are merely extracting profit)
        prvit 4y ago
        No, you’re ignoring all the maintenance your landlord would usually be responsible for. Things like internal plumbing, internal wiring, air conditioning and appliances.