6 ms·

This does miss one huge drawback of cast iron for cooking some dishes - heat control. Cast iron retains heat like crazy and doesn’t change quickly. Get that thi

This does miss one huge drawback of cast iron for cooking some dishes - heat control. Cast iron retains heat like crazy and doesn’t change quickly. Get that thing up to a searing temperature and it’ll be 10-15 minutes before you can get an egg anywhere near it for example. A thinner steel pan will heat up and cool down much rapidly allowing for a lot more control. Luckily there’s a fantastic non-nonstick option for that too; a carbon steel wok. Amazing tool that is frankly under-utilized in the western world. J. Kenji López-Alt released a book this year that goes over how to use it in great engineering-focused detail for anyone wanting to give it a shot.

CarVac 4y ago
Another benefit of carbon steel woks is they come from the factory smooth.
- taywrobel 4y ago
  True, but worth noting that they usually also come with machine oil on them. It’s very important to correctly clean and season before first use, same as with cast iron.
twawaaay 4y ago
Carbon steel wok is only viable on a powerful gas stove. Right now where I live there is a campaign to get rid of gas stoves. And the existing ones are far, far from being powerful enough to use wok properly.
- taywrobel 4y ago
  I actually just moved to a house with an all-electric range. We use the wok too often for that, so grabbed a butane burner for ~$50 on Amazon. Can also find them at camping supply stores. The one we got is 15,000 BTU, which is frankly too much. You can find 10,000 or 12,000 BTU options for cheaper, and will probably get some more fine grained control out of it. The butane lasts for quite a while in it for wok use as well, since you’re generally only cooking for a few minutes at a time.
  - flycaliguy 4y ago
    Happy to read this, I’ve been considering this exact arrangement lately. A bunch of things I’ve read say you need 15,000 if you want to get that carmilization on your stir fry’s. I’m also very inspired by this video [1] which shows what appears to be a jet engine under a wok used by a master chef. [1] https://youtu.be/Zj8D5Z5S1D8 https://youtu.be/Zj8D5Z5S1D8
    - twawaaay 4y ago
      You can get more powerful burner but you can also reduce your portions. I have a carbon steel wok on a typical (here) gas burner (~7k BTU). I can make single portion on it. It requires moving the food around the wok surface constantly to parts that had some time to get hot. Forget about throwing more than one portion into it, it will just start to boil. So the only time I get to use it is when my family is away or when I want to make something for myself at an odd hour but pretty much useless for a meal for my family.
    - graycat 4y ago
      Yes, amazing. The restaurant looks REALLY nice. Singapore is starting to look really nice -- maybe I should visit? Sure, the chef is amazing. I'm surprised his wok does not have a long handle. So, he uses a towel as a pot holder when he holds the small handle on his wok. No joke he has a lot of heat. At one point he even has some of the oil in his wok flaming a little! He seems to have his wok heat source going 100% all the time. So, to pay for the fuel he cooks really fast, lots of dishes per hour, and has a cheap fuel source? Also, he needs to have some good exhaust air flow for his kitchen or soon will also cook everyone in the kitchen and restaurant! For his heat source, looks like he has repurposed an old GE J79 jet engine, e.g., as used in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-58_Hustler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-58_Hustler
  - hackeraccount 4y ago
    That bastard fuel.
  - jen729w 4y ago
    Similarly I have the cheapest BBQ I could find [0] and use both my CS wok and CI/CS pans almost exclusively on it. It’s rare that I use the BBQ plates that came with it, it’s basically an outdoor burner. Mostly so that my house doesn’t stink. I can go hot hot hot just out the back door and not worry about the smoke. A standard gas bottle (refill ~AU$40) lasts about 8 months. [0]: https://www.bunnings.com.au/jumbuck-2-burner-hooded-bbq_p3171257 https://www.bunnings.com.au/jumbuck-2-burner-hooded-bbq_p317...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  They work splendidly on wood-burning stoves, give it a try. If you don't have one of those a metal bucket with holes in the bottom-side (for air intake) and top-side also works very well, just feed it dry sticks through the air holes to keep it going. I regularly use a big carbon steel wok to make nasi goreng (fried rice), to deep fry fish and for similar things.
- wffurr 4y ago
  Just use flat bottomed pans on an induction stove. Works great.
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    Carbon steel wok is far superior to any flat bottomed pan for certain types of dishes but you need skill to use it.
    - mastazi 4y ago
      I think that parent meant flat bottomed carbon steel pans.
- mastazi 4y ago
  I use carbon steel pans on a ceramic electric stovetop and they work perfectly. If you don't like Western style pans and you still want to use a wok, then you can get a wok where the centre is flat (many woks are built that way so it should't be too hard to find one), and it will work the same way as the pans I use.
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    There are multiple issues with flat bottomed wok. The point of the wok is that the liquid gathers in the centre of the wok leaving the sides with very little liquid on them which helps a lot with browning. You can also throw small amounts of relatively delicate ingredients (like garlic) that will get sauted in deep pool of oil in the centre and then you can add more ingredients and build your dish. With any flat bottom you give away some properties of the wok, depending on how large the flat part is. Another nice property of wok is that because of its dome shape it will not deform even at high temperature differentials. Any flat piece of steel subjected to high temperature differentials will deform over time.
    - mastazi 4y ago
      yes, I get what you mean about the pool of liquid in the centre, my wife is Asian and I've seen her using that technique before. You're right about pans getting warped, I have this issue from time to time with my carbon steel pans, luckily it is an easily fixable issue (using a sturdy rubber mallet on a pre-heated pan is my favourite method).
- graycat 4y ago
  Wok? Gas heat? Enough heat? Okay: (1) Off the kitchen, have a back porch, i.e., no roof, call it a deck. (2) Get an inexpensive, propane powered deep fat fryer turkey cooker. (3) Use the propane burner to heat a wok. Get plenty of heat! Did that! Cooked quarts of Moo Shi Pork (basically sauteed pork matchsticks with steamed, shredded cabbage and various flavorings) at a time. Worked great. Lost the setup in a move!
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  > where I live there is a campaign to get rid of gas stoves. I'd be very interested to hear from the serious home cooks on this issue, as well as the perspective of professional chefs. While I consider myself an advanced home cook, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not limited by going electric only - it's the heat, not the flame that matters for most of what I do. For those cases where I really do need flame (roasting peppers or something maybe?), I can always go outside to my grill. Again, would be very interested in other perspectives on this.
  - allset_ 4y ago
    > I can always go outside to my grill. That's a privilege a lot of people in cities don't have. I would love to have a gas cook top, but my building is electric only. Edit: I'm also in the "advanced home cook" category, not a pro.
  - spfzero 4y ago
    I've cooked on both, many years on each and I'm an every-day kind of cook. In my experience, gas is better. Heats up faster, reacts much faster to control input, and by looking at the flame under the pan I can adjust exactly, and quickly. I have not cooked on induction though, which might be a big improvement over the electric ranges I've used. Another thing about gas ranges that is purely mechanical, is that I can slide pans around to get them off the burner when I need things to cool down fast and I don't want to turn the flame completely off. I have come to really rely on this. The electric ranges I've used have a glass top and it will get scratched up if you slide the pan around.
  - mgaunard 4y ago
    The main advantage of gas is that it heats up the pan from the sides as well, not just the bottom. Some might consider it inefficient and a waste of energy, but it makes seasoning pans much easier.
  - SECProto 4y ago
    I've cooked on most types of stove: gas (butane, propane, natural gas), electric (coil stove, solid disc resistor, glass top halogen, glass top induction), a few older styles (cast iron wood stove, kerosene camp stove, straight up campfire). I consider myself a pretty proficient home cook. My thoughts on the stove types: - Gas is overrated. The excess heat it generates indoors is not worth whatever benefits it has. The heat on the sides of pans can sometimes be helpful, but perhaps more often is a hindrance - have to make sure to scrape the sides of pots thoroughly and regularly when making a cream sauce, for example. I don't find gas to boil water faster than an electric cooktop. I usually use an electric kettle for 2/3 of the water with coil and gas stoves, but I don't have to bother with induction. Small portable gas burners (as made by eg Iwatani) are quite handy to have around for those times you really want the advantages of Gas (a bbq or grill would serve same purpose). - Induction is great, except for wok cooking. Specialized induction wok burners do exist, but are still pretty specialized pieces of equipment. 120v induction hotplates are not so good (but not as bad as coil ones). One thing I don't like about induction is they tend to have some electronic whine when operating - presumably as they switch on and off to regulate heat output. I dislike how complicated the electronics are - when something goes wrong, they're so expensive to repair that it's barely worthwhile. - Coil stoves are decent, as long as they have a 220V supply - 120v coils, eg hot plates, are awful. I appreciate their ruggedness and simplicity - it's basically a wire from the wall, through a potentiometer, to a big resistor. - Solid disc resistance stoves are awful - Cooking on a wood stove is not practical usually, but it can give a nice home-y feel, especially if you're simmering some Apple Cider or Mulled Wine.
f38zf5vdt 4y ago
Virtually every type of pan comes in carbon steel for affordable prices from cookware wholesalers. They've been life changing for me, especially combined with an induction cooker. Not to endorse any specific company, but a Thermalloy 8-inch pan is available for approximately $20 USD.
mastazi 4y ago
> frankly under-utilized in the western world. they are not popular at home but, even in the western world, carbon steel pans are the most common type of pan used in restaurants, they are also known as Lyonnaise pans. Recently they are becoming more common and you can even buy them at Ikea: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vardagen-frying-pan-carbon-steel-90438011/#content https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vardagen-frying-pan-carbon-stee... Not only they (carbon steel pans and woks) are faster to heat and easier to control than cast iron, they are also lighter, and another advantage is that they have longer handles that don't heat up as much, which means you can grab them without using oven mitts or handle covers.
samatman 4y ago
High reserve heat is the reason to use cast iron. It's certainly possible to learn to do delicate things with cast iron and heat, just as (identical to in fact) it's possible to get the hang of this with resistive coil hobs. But it's fighting the tool. Unless one has a strong commitment to minimalism, or a kitchen/galley which demands it, one is better off having other skillets for that. Wrought iron, carbon steel, stainless, pick a couple you like. But to get that deep caramel crust on southern Johnny cake, you'll want cast iron. Fantastic for getting a deep even sear on a sous vide steak. The reserve heat should be your friend.
martingoodson 4y ago
Carbon steel woks are useless for induction or electric jobs. The sides are so high that they don’t get near to the heat and never season. Then they rust. I which I could find an alternative to non-stick woks. I’ve ordered a steel aluminium laminate. Maybe that will work.
- mgaunard 4y ago
  If you don't have gas, you need to season in the oven.
  - martingoodson 4y ago
    But how do I maintain the seasoning over Time?
    - mgaunard 4y ago
      your oven remains usable after being used once.
smarks 4y ago
+1 for Kenji’s book “The Wok”. I use an inexpensive carbon steel, flat-bottomed wok on my regular old electric stove. Sure, a round-bottomed wok on a gas burner might work better but I can get good results on my setup.
lowbloodsugar 4y ago
>Get that thing up to a searing temperature and it’ll be 10-15 minutes before you can get an egg anywhere near it for example. So, er, don’t do that? Nice thing is, for that price, I can buy more than one pan! And unlike other pans I can get it up to a searing temperature with enough heat storage that it actually sears. All that being said, yeah, nonstick pans for $80 that only last a year? Ok. They are worth it. So we have both. Yes and a wok.

CarVac 4y ago

Another benefit of carbon steel woks is they come from the factory smooth.

taywrobel 4y ago
True, but worth noting that they usually also come with machine oil on them. It’s very important to correctly clean and season before first use, same as with cast iron.

twawaaay 4y ago

Carbon steel wok is only viable on a powerful gas stove. Right now where I live there is a campaign to get rid of gas stoves. And the existing ones are far, far from being powerful enough to use wok properly.

taywrobel 4y ago
I actually just moved to a house with an all-electric range. We use the wok too often for that, so grabbed a butane burner for ~$50 on Amazon. Can also find them at camping supply stores. The one we got is 15,000 BTU, which is frankly too much. You can find 10,000 or 12,000 BTU options for cheaper, and will probably get some more fine grained control out of it. The butane lasts for quite a while in it for wok use as well, since you’re generally only cooking for a few minutes at a time.
- flycaliguy 4y ago
  Happy to read this, I’ve been considering this exact arrangement lately. A bunch of things I’ve read say you need 15,000 if you want to get that carmilization on your stir fry’s. I’m also very inspired by this video [1] which shows what appears to be a jet engine under a wok used by a master chef. [1] https://youtu.be/Zj8D5Z5S1D8 https://youtu.be/Zj8D5Z5S1D8
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    You can get more powerful burner but you can also reduce your portions. I have a carbon steel wok on a typical (here) gas burner (~7k BTU). I can make single portion on it. It requires moving the food around the wok surface constantly to parts that had some time to get hot. Forget about throwing more than one portion into it, it will just start to boil. So the only time I get to use it is when my family is away or when I want to make something for myself at an odd hour but pretty much useless for a meal for my family.
  - graycat 4y ago
    Yes, amazing. The restaurant looks REALLY nice. Singapore is starting to look really nice -- maybe I should visit? Sure, the chef is amazing. I'm surprised his wok does not have a long handle. So, he uses a towel as a pot holder when he holds the small handle on his wok. No joke he has a lot of heat. At one point he even has some of the oil in his wok flaming a little! He seems to have his wok heat source going 100% all the time. So, to pay for the fuel he cooks really fast, lots of dishes per hour, and has a cheap fuel source? Also, he needs to have some good exhaust air flow for his kitchen or soon will also cook everyone in the kitchen and restaurant! For his heat source, looks like he has repurposed an old GE J79 jet engine, e.g., as used in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-58_Hustler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-58_Hustler
- hackeraccount 4y ago
  That bastard fuel.
- jen729w 4y ago
  Similarly I have the cheapest BBQ I could find [0] and use both my CS wok and CI/CS pans almost exclusively on it. It’s rare that I use the BBQ plates that came with it, it’s basically an outdoor burner. Mostly so that my house doesn’t stink. I can go hot hot hot just out the back door and not worry about the smoke. A standard gas bottle (refill ~AU$40) lasts about 8 months. [0]: https://www.bunnings.com.au/jumbuck-2-burner-hooded-bbq_p3171257 https://www.bunnings.com.au/jumbuck-2-burner-hooded-bbq_p317...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
the_third_wave 4y ago
They work splendidly on wood-burning stoves, give it a try. If you don't have one of those a metal bucket with holes in the bottom-side (for air intake) and top-side also works very well, just feed it dry sticks through the air holes to keep it going. I regularly use a big carbon steel wok to make nasi goreng (fried rice), to deep fry fish and for similar things.
wffurr 4y ago
Just use flat bottomed pans on an induction stove. Works great.
- twawaaay 4y ago
  Carbon steel wok is far superior to any flat bottomed pan for certain types of dishes but you need skill to use it.
  - mastazi 4y ago
    I think that parent meant flat bottomed carbon steel pans.
mastazi 4y ago
I use carbon steel pans on a ceramic electric stovetop and they work perfectly. If you don't like Western style pans and you still want to use a wok, then you can get a wok where the centre is flat (many woks are built that way so it should't be too hard to find one), and it will work the same way as the pans I use.
- twawaaay 4y ago
  There are multiple issues with flat bottomed wok. The point of the wok is that the liquid gathers in the centre of the wok leaving the sides with very little liquid on them which helps a lot with browning. You can also throw small amounts of relatively delicate ingredients (like garlic) that will get sauted in deep pool of oil in the centre and then you can add more ingredients and build your dish. With any flat bottom you give away some properties of the wok, depending on how large the flat part is. Another nice property of wok is that because of its dome shape it will not deform even at high temperature differentials. Any flat piece of steel subjected to high temperature differentials will deform over time.
  - mastazi 4y ago
    yes, I get what you mean about the pool of liquid in the centre, my wife is Asian and I've seen her using that technique before. You're right about pans getting warped, I have this issue from time to time with my carbon steel pans, luckily it is an easily fixable issue (using a sturdy rubber mallet on a pre-heated pan is my favourite method).
graycat 4y ago
Wok? Gas heat? Enough heat? Okay: (1) Off the kitchen, have a back porch, i.e., no roof, call it a deck. (2) Get an inexpensive, propane powered deep fat fryer turkey cooker. (3) Use the propane burner to heat a wok. Get plenty of heat! Did that! Cooked quarts of Moo Shi Pork (basically sauteed pork matchsticks with steamed, shredded cabbage and various flavorings) at a time. Worked great. Lost the setup in a move!
poulsbohemian 4y ago
> where I live there is a campaign to get rid of gas stoves. I'd be very interested to hear from the serious home cooks on this issue, as well as the perspective of professional chefs. While I consider myself an advanced home cook, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not limited by going electric only - it's the heat, not the flame that matters for most of what I do. For those cases where I really do need flame (roasting peppers or something maybe?), I can always go outside to my grill. Again, would be very interested in other perspectives on this.
- allset_ 4y ago
  > I can always go outside to my grill. That's a privilege a lot of people in cities don't have. I would love to have a gas cook top, but my building is electric only. Edit: I'm also in the "advanced home cook" category, not a pro.
- spfzero 4y ago
  I've cooked on both, many years on each and I'm an every-day kind of cook. In my experience, gas is better. Heats up faster, reacts much faster to control input, and by looking at the flame under the pan I can adjust exactly, and quickly. I have not cooked on induction though, which might be a big improvement over the electric ranges I've used. Another thing about gas ranges that is purely mechanical, is that I can slide pans around to get them off the burner when I need things to cool down fast and I don't want to turn the flame completely off. I have come to really rely on this. The electric ranges I've used have a glass top and it will get scratched up if you slide the pan around.
- mgaunard 4y ago
  The main advantage of gas is that it heats up the pan from the sides as well, not just the bottom. Some might consider it inefficient and a waste of energy, but it makes seasoning pans much easier.
- SECProto 4y ago
  I've cooked on most types of stove: gas (butane, propane, natural gas), electric (coil stove, solid disc resistor, glass top halogen, glass top induction), a few older styles (cast iron wood stove, kerosene camp stove, straight up campfire). I consider myself a pretty proficient home cook. My thoughts on the stove types: - Gas is overrated. The excess heat it generates indoors is not worth whatever benefits it has. The heat on the sides of pans can sometimes be helpful, but perhaps more often is a hindrance - have to make sure to scrape the sides of pots thoroughly and regularly when making a cream sauce, for example. I don't find gas to boil water faster than an electric cooktop. I usually use an electric kettle for 2/3 of the water with coil and gas stoves, but I don't have to bother with induction. Small portable gas burners (as made by eg Iwatani) are quite handy to have around for those times you really want the advantages of Gas (a bbq or grill would serve same purpose). - Induction is great, except for wok cooking. Specialized induction wok burners do exist, but are still pretty specialized pieces of equipment. 120v induction hotplates are not so good (but not as bad as coil ones). One thing I don't like about induction is they tend to have some electronic whine when operating - presumably as they switch on and off to regulate heat output. I dislike how complicated the electronics are - when something goes wrong, they're so expensive to repair that it's barely worthwhile. - Coil stoves are decent, as long as they have a 220V supply - 120v coils, eg hot plates, are awful. I appreciate their ruggedness and simplicity - it's basically a wire from the wall, through a potentiometer, to a big resistor. - Solid disc resistance stoves are awful - Cooking on a wood stove is not practical usually, but it can give a nice home-y feel, especially if you're simmering some Apple Cider or Mulled Wine.

f38zf5vdt 4y ago

Virtually every type of pan comes in carbon steel for affordable prices from cookware wholesalers. They've been life changing for me, especially combined with an induction cooker. Not to endorse any specific company, but a Thermalloy 8-inch pan is available for approximately $20 USD.

mastazi 4y ago

> frankly under-utilized in the western world. they are not popular at home but, even in the western world, carbon steel pans are the most common type of pan used in restaurants, they are also known as Lyonnaise pans. Recently they are becoming more common and you can even buy them at Ikea: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vardagen-frying-pan-carbon-steel-90438011/#content https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vardagen-frying-pan-carbon-stee... Not only they (carbon steel pans and woks) are faster to heat and easier to control than cast iron, they are also lighter, and another advantage is that they have longer handles that don't heat up as much, which means you can grab them without using oven mitts or handle covers.

samatman 4y ago

High reserve heat is the reason to use cast iron. It's certainly possible to learn to do delicate things with cast iron and heat, just as (identical to in fact) it's possible to get the hang of this with resistive coil hobs. But it's fighting the tool. Unless one has a strong commitment to minimalism, or a kitchen/galley which demands it, one is better off having other skillets for that. Wrought iron, carbon steel, stainless, pick a couple you like. But to get that deep caramel crust on southern Johnny cake, you'll want cast iron. Fantastic for getting a deep even sear on a sous vide steak. The reserve heat should be your friend.

martingoodson 4y ago

Carbon steel woks are useless for induction or electric jobs. The sides are so high that they don’t get near to the heat and never season. Then they rust. I which I could find an alternative to non-stick woks. I’ve ordered a steel aluminium laminate. Maybe that will work.

mgaunard 4y ago
If you don't have gas, you need to season in the oven.
- martingoodson 4y ago
  But how do I maintain the seasoning over Time?
  - mgaunard 4y ago
    your oven remains usable after being used once.

smarks 4y ago

+1 for Kenji’s book “The Wok”. I use an inexpensive carbon steel, flat-bottomed wok on my regular old electric stove. Sure, a round-bottomed wok on a gas burner might work better but I can get good results on my setup.

lowbloodsugar 4y ago

>Get that thing up to a searing temperature and it’ll be 10-15 minutes before you can get an egg anywhere near it for example. So, er, don’t do that? Nice thing is, for that price, I can buy more than one pan! And unlike other pans I can get it up to a searing temperature with enough heat storage that it actually sears. All that being said, yeah, nonstick pans for $80 that only last a year? Ok. They are worth it. So we have both. Yes and a wok.