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> I had no idea StarCraft still saved the entire game state: what a gigantic waste! > Fun times: I'd exchange my best games with my brother, as email attachment
by MrDOS 4y ago
> I had no idea StarCraft still saved the entire game state: what a gigantic waste!
> Fun times: I'd exchange my best games with my brother, as email attachments IIRC. We'd then watch each other's games and make comments.
There is a major drawback to save files which rely on the deterministic nature of the game: what happens when the determinism changes? I don't mean due to bugs; I mean intentional modifications to the game's behaviour through patches. Either these changes will break old replays and saves, or the game needs to carry around multiple simulation versions.
You bring up Age of Empires. This is a small problem in the current AoE2 competitive scene. Yes, AoE2 has a competitive scene – the game has been re-released twice in the past decade, and still enjoys the attention of competitive play, including sponsored tournaments (e.g., the Red Bull Wololo series). Microsoft are attempting to give the game the same treatment as other modern, competitive titles, which means frequent balance patches, and occasional injections of new content (DLC). Unfortunately, each one of these updates breaks old save games and replays, which, as you point out, rely on the deterministic nature of the engine. It means that any casting/commentating of games must happen within relatively short order of them being played, and that the only reliable distribution format for old games is... screen recordings. I'd much rather a less space-efficient save format (or at least having the option to convert deterministic replays into a fully self-sufficient archive format) than having to discard native recordings of great games by the wayside in favour of videos.
- rybosome 4y agoYep, I recall being bitten by that. StarCraft actually let you save replays which were just player inputs - which begs the question why save games couldn’t do this, but I digress - and I clearly remember attempting to watch a replay after a major game update and seeing it fall apart after a few minutes. The replay was of a 40 minute game. It ran fine for the first few minutes, then I’m not sure what went wrong but suddenly all the characters stopped moving (except the automated mining drones) and the game just stayed like that for the next 30+ minutes.
- stonith 4y ago> Which begs the question why save games couldn’t do this Replays weren't added until 1.08[1] so it may have changed sometime post launch, but I'd have thought because it means you have to run the sim to get to the eg. 30 minute mark where the save is, and even on modern machines running remastered that takes quite a while. A more constrained machine from the times wouldn't be able to do the x16 speed fast forward used today. [1] https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Patch_1.08 https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Patch_1.08
- throwaway6734 4y agoThe current AoE2 competitive scene is awesome.
- bee_rider 4y agoThe engine has to be pretty tiny for an old game like that, right? They could probably ship a copy of all the historical version along with it, just for replays...
- singron 4y agoI think StarCraft2 would launch an old replay with an old executable. If you look around, there is a directory with exes from a bunch of different versions of the game. I don't know if they still do this since it seems quite unwieldy.