3 ms·

Same here, sort of. I've been using like 30 IDEs throughout my life, and chose emacs over vim during the period I was trying to stay within the terminal, but VS

by baby 4y ago

Same here, sort of. I've been using like 30 IDEs throughout my life, and chose emacs over vim during the period I was trying to stay within the terminal, but VSCode is the best IDE I've ever used period.

wiseowise 4y ago
Have you tried IntelliJ products?
- girvo 4y ago
  I have, and previous to that I was a big fan of Komodo IDE. One weird feature that I love from both VSCode and Komodo is the ability to open a folder as a project, no need for an actual project file or other IDE specific handling of it that older style IDEs always seemed to a require. The feature set of the IntelliJ products are quite excellent of course, but for whatever reason my need for some weird IDE-editor hybrid where the filesystem is what matters, not the project, always meant I bounced off them.
  - zo1 4y ago
    I regularly open folders as projects and the intellij (pycharm in my case) IDE creates it as a project without hassle. Just add a bit of a script to cleanup any ide project cruft it creates and I'd say you're mostly there. Compared to all I get from a real ide, VSCode is like a stone age dinosaur.
    - Kiro 4y ago
      Sounds horrible. Just let me open a folder without it being a project or having to use a script to clean up stuff (wtf?).
      - kalleboo 4y ago
        I use an IntelliJ IDE and open folders all the time and it's never created any cruft to clean up. I think that only shows up if you start making project configurations (like file watchers to run preprocessors for web languages)
        evol262 4y ago
        It still makes a .idea folder to add to .gitignore or clean up, just as .vscode makes a .vscode folder. I don't see this as a lot different than MacOS spraying .DS_STORE files everywhere. It's not a big deal to add to .gitignore, but it does leave a fingerprint. It's just that tries to determine reasonable defaults if the path doesn't exist instead of Netbeans/Eclipse/whatever forcing you to pick them with a wizard if you want any of the "real" features to work.
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        VS Code creates a project though: .vscode folder.
        nickersonm 4y ago
        Only if you make workspace-specific settings changes.
      - stjohnswarts 4y ago
        or be forced to bend to their idea of what a project is and which build tools I need to be using, I concur 100%.
- baby 4y ago
  Yeah, half of my coworkers used to be on CLion (for Rust). TBH I couldn't get past the fact that it reminds me of Java IDEs with too many things going on. What's better compared to VSCode?
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    VSCode is very, very bare bones compared to what JetBrains can offer in terms of refactoring, debugging, and code analysis (for major languages). It's hard to start at anything specific :)
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      For Rust I found CLion to have no improvement over VS Code.
    - kunos 4y ago
      Not for Rust tho. VSCode+Rust Analyzer offers an amazing experience and I found it to be on-par if not better than IntelliJ/Clion with a much more responsive editing, startup times and task customization.
    - baby 4y ago
      Considering that JetBrains doesn't use rust-analyzer I have a hard time imagining that it's better, more that it's worse :o
    - rudnevr 4y ago
      Absolutely, and I wonder how people who are not professional in both IDEs can compare. Typically VSCode + plugins + some additional software from old time like BeyondCompare etc. poorly make up Intellij's core functionality. I haven't seen a single person who seriously used both and went back. Search, VCS, keymapping, defaults, heuristics, refactoring wide of use, AI-based autocompletion - there's simply no real adversary. Last time I was blasted when copying an old DB to a one in a new DB it correctly guessed the renamed columns based partly on type and size, partly on column names. Also I love its suggestions so much that when learning a new language I always look at Jetbrains' respective autosuggestions - simply because it makes me a better programmer, faster.
reillyse 4y ago
Yes me too. I started with basic and then up through Microsoft products, swore off them for emacs for years and am now on vs code cause it works so damn well. That in itself says how well it works.
d0mine 4y ago
30 IDEs seems like a lot. Could you share why have you switched between so many? Could you list several specific points that make VSCode preferable over emacs.
- baby 4y ago
  I guess I’ve been programming since I was very young, so I went through a lot of horrible things like frontpage, dreamweaver, notepad++, and then a number of them per language (phpstorm, and other php IDEs, java IDEs, etc.) The biggest selling point for me for vscode is good defaults (I like vanilla configurations to get started fast on new machines) and discoverability. I want to be able to install 10 plugins and try all of them in a few minutes, and learn shortcuts as I use the plugin (with emacs each extension is an investment)
  - d0mine 4y ago
    Agreed, on approachable defaults for VSCode. I found use-package, try elisp packages make it easy to try new packages in emacs. https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package https://github.com/larstvei/Try https://github.com/larstvei/Try

by baby 4y ago

wiseowise 4y ago

Have you tried IntelliJ products?

girvo 4y ago
I have, and previous to that I was a big fan of Komodo IDE. One weird feature that I love from both VSCode and Komodo is the ability to open a folder as a project, no need for an actual project file or other IDE specific handling of it that older style IDEs always seemed to a require. The feature set of the IntelliJ products are quite excellent of course, but for whatever reason my need for some weird IDE-editor hybrid where the filesystem is what matters, not the project, always meant I bounced off them.
- zo1 4y ago
  I regularly open folders as projects and the intellij (pycharm in my case) IDE creates it as a project without hassle. Just add a bit of a script to cleanup any ide project cruft it creates and I'd say you're mostly there. Compared to all I get from a real ide, VSCode is like a stone age dinosaur.
  - Kiro 4y ago
    Sounds horrible. Just let me open a folder without it being a project or having to use a script to clean up stuff (wtf?).
    - kalleboo 4y ago
      I use an IntelliJ IDE and open folders all the time and it's never created any cruft to clean up. I think that only shows up if you start making project configurations (like file watchers to run preprocessors for web languages)
      - evol262 4y ago
        It still makes a .idea folder to add to .gitignore or clean up, just as .vscode makes a .vscode folder. I don't see this as a lot different than MacOS spraying .DS_STORE files everywhere. It's not a big deal to add to .gitignore, but it does leave a fingerprint. It's just that tries to determine reasonable defaults if the path doesn't exist instead of Netbeans/Eclipse/whatever forcing you to pick them with a wizard if you want any of the "real" features to work.
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      VS Code creates a project though: .vscode folder.
      - nickersonm 4y ago
        Only if you make workspace-specific settings changes.
    - stjohnswarts 4y ago
      or be forced to bend to their idea of what a project is and which build tools I need to be using, I concur 100%.
baby 4y ago
Yeah, half of my coworkers used to be on CLion (for Rust). TBH I couldn't get past the fact that it reminds me of Java IDEs with too many things going on. What's better compared to VSCode?
- dmitriid 4y ago
  VSCode is very, very bare bones compared to what JetBrains can offer in terms of refactoring, debugging, and code analysis (for major languages). It's hard to start at anything specific :)
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    For Rust I found CLion to have no improvement over VS Code.
  - kunos 4y ago
    Not for Rust tho. VSCode+Rust Analyzer offers an amazing experience and I found it to be on-par if not better than IntelliJ/Clion with a much more responsive editing, startup times and task customization.
  - baby 4y ago
    Considering that JetBrains doesn't use rust-analyzer I have a hard time imagining that it's better, more that it's worse :o
  - rudnevr 4y ago
    Absolutely, and I wonder how people who are not professional in both IDEs can compare. Typically VSCode + plugins + some additional software from old time like BeyondCompare etc. poorly make up Intellij's core functionality. I haven't seen a single person who seriously used both and went back. Search, VCS, keymapping, defaults, heuristics, refactoring wide of use, AI-based autocompletion - there's simply no real adversary. Last time I was blasted when copying an old DB to a one in a new DB it correctly guessed the renamed columns based partly on type and size, partly on column names. Also I love its suggestions so much that when learning a new language I always look at Jetbrains' respective autosuggestions - simply because it makes me a better programmer, faster.

reillyse 4y ago

Yes me too. I started with basic and then up through Microsoft products, swore off them for emacs for years and am now on vs code cause it works so damn well. That in itself says how well it works.

d0mine 4y ago

30 IDEs seems like a lot. Could you share why have you switched between so many? Could you list several specific points that make VSCode preferable over emacs.

baby 4y ago
I guess I’ve been programming since I was very young, so I went through a lot of horrible things like frontpage, dreamweaver, notepad++, and then a number of them per language (phpstorm, and other php IDEs, java IDEs, etc.) The biggest selling point for me for vscode is good defaults (I like vanilla configurations to get started fast on new machines) and discoverability. I want to be able to install 10 plugins and try all of them in a few minutes, and learn shortcuts as I use the plugin (with emacs each extension is an investment)
- d0mine 4y ago
  Agreed, on approachable defaults for VSCode. I found use-package, try elisp packages make it easy to try new packages in emacs. https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package https://github.com/larstvei/Try https://github.com/larstvei/Try