6 ms·

So the "relationship between suckless and nazism" is: - They picked an edgy name for an email server - They went on a torchlit hike [0] once - One of their m

• slater 4y ago
  Per the linked twitter thread: "Each one individually — sure, I can excuse that. All at once, though? That's not a coincidence anymore, that's a pattern." https://twitter.com/kuschku/status/1450942799529091073 https://twitter.com/kuschku/status/1450942799529091073 (also, with "adoration of communism and its murderous dictators" you belie your own biases and agenda. Just because SOME asshole dictators were ostensibly heads of communist states, doesn't automagically translate to "lol communism bad amirite". but you knew that already.)
  • doliveira 4y ago
    [flagged]
  • anthk 4y ago
    Eurocommunism for example, it clashed against Stalinism fore sure.
    • _9xrb 4y ago
      Communism in prewar Europe was often explicitly Stalinist, such as the original "antifa": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion >Under the leadership of Ernst Thälmann, the KPD became a Stalinist party that was fiercely loyal to the Soviet government. Since 1928, the KPD was largely controlled and funded by the Soviet government through the Comintern. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War#Republicans_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War#Republicans_... >It is important to note that there was infighting between the Republican factions, and that the Communists following Stalinism declared the POUM, the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification, (an anti-Stalinist communist party) to be an illegal organization, along with the Anarchists. The Stalinists betrayed and committed mass atrocities on the other Republican factions, such as torture and mass executions. George Orwell would record this in his Homage to Catalonia as well as write Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm to criticize Stalinism. None of this is relevant to FOSS. I'd rather leave politics out whenever possible. So long as Suckless isn't worse than what's been alleged, I'm OK letting them slide.
      • anthk 4y ago
        I'm Basque (here politic debates were on every TV channel) and my family was sided with the CNT. Please, don´t lecture me on bullshit I know better than you by a huge margin. Also, as I said, you know nil on Eurocommunism, which opposed Stalinism.
        • _9xrb 4y ago
          I didn't realize "Eurocommunism" was a proper noun referring to a more recent time period, and not a general reference to communism in Europe. I had never heard it before. My apologies.
          • anthk 4y ago
            It was a distinct ideology closer to a social democracy than a totalitarian dictatorship. Jugoslavia still was a dictatorship, but it they didn't collapse down Jugo under ethnic wars, today it would be something like China but far more open and progressive. State Communism, yes, but without hurting personal freedoms.
• anthk 4y ago
  You can blend communism under democratic socialism without falling down to the side of Stalinism. Heck, even Jugoslavia was pretty open for the Marxist standards. They had media and computers from both sides of the Iron Courtain. Legally. You can't do the same with nazism. What could the Germans do, plan another shoa for Jews under a democratic referendum?
  • overboard2 4y ago
    They could segregate Jews into ghettos by democratic referendum.
    • anthk 4y ago
      Not without clashing with zillions of national and international laws against that.
      • overboard2 4y ago
        Probably, but why wouldn't it count as democratic nazism?
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• gtsop 4y ago
  Classic line. > I don't need to agree with the total cosmology of every individual FOSS maintainer. Well, sure. But since we're here, talking about neonazis, and we disagree with neonazism (right, deepdiver?), I'll pass on their software. Let me rephrase it. I wont politically check every author of every software i use, but since the internet randomly revealed to me this group of neonazis write that software, I won't use it.
  • xupybd 4y ago
    I think the point is they they're not neonazis. I don't want to support neonazis in anyway, including using their software. That said I've used their tools and I'm not a fan. It's far to minimalistic for me.
  • tomxor 4y ago
    • gtsop 4y ago
      Please provide links. Also, i don't use microsoft or apple products at all, if you get me those links I would have one more reason to do so.
      • tomxor 4y ago
        It's a shame you didn't apply the same level of scepticism to the OPs links and siblings half truths. BTW did you know Linux and BSD are also written by neonazis? You're welcome The Internet.
        • gtsop 4y ago
          Links?
          • tomxor 4y ago
            Whoosh
• eyelidlessness 4y ago
  • _9xrb 4y ago
    Are you confusing the Suckless team with the Charlottesville neo-Nazis? I don't see anything about Suckless shouting those things or attending such rallies. If they did it would obviously change the equation. If they didn't you should probably edit or delete your comment.
  • nsl 4y ago
    You are very confused. Nobody is talking about the famous Charlottesville neonazi march. The discussion is about a (supposedly?) unrelated torchlit march that happened at a suckless conference. The excuse given by suckless people is that torchlit marches are a common fixture in non-fascist German culture (I don't know if this is true or not).
    • eyelidlessness 4y ago
      It isn’t unrelated. Their reference to “cultural marxism” is a common antisemitic trope used by exactly the same groups of nazis who marched in Charlottesville. The whole lot of them use plausible deniability about their nazism to avoid tarnishing their reputations, but deliberately signal common themes to fellow travelers. Doing the one nazi thing in the context of an obvious reference to the other is exactly that kind of signal. I’m not confused. I’m unfortunately very familiar with how nazis organize and present themselves.
      • deepdriver 4y ago
        In your original comment, you're explicitly lying about the Suckless team in a manner that is libelous and defamatory. I think you ought to reconsider doubling down. Furthermore, "Cultural Marxism" has been a political term of art on the mainstream American right for decades. Glenn Beck (remember him? I do my best to forget) was using it on TV over a decade ago. Everyone you disagree with on the Internet is not, in fact, necessarily a Nazi.
• systemvoltage 4y ago
  I appreciate WWII era german guns and their military inventions, whilst still condemn Nazism. Separate art from the artist. Social justice warriors from anyside need to be shammed because all they do is take justice out of the hands of the legal justice system that we all agreed and put limits on, into their own hands and entirely based on subjectivist emotions and not much objectivity. Hate Nazi lunatics? Go ahead and pass an amendment to the constitution that Nazi symbols are prohibited speech. That's democracy. I loathe the post-modern social justice of any kind, from any person, from any side.
• Beltalowda 4y ago
  > One of their members has dumb/conservative opinions on history (and vaccines too [1], unfortunately) Not sure if that vaccine stuff has any serious connection to suckless? I can see a few mailing list posts in a quick check, but no commits. Suckless doesn't really have "members" anyway, it's just random people occasionally working on some code and occasionally a few people get together. Overall, it's not even very active. Guess what, if you do a survey off all GNOME, Linux kernel, GNU, HN commenters, etc. you will find some people with unsavoury opinions. Does that mean all of GNOME are now Nazis? Or all of HN? It's a single quasseldroid developer who started and keeps harping on about this as nauseam. For some reason, people keep taking it at face value. It has exactly the same intellectual and moral value as all that "no no, the Democrats and leftists are the REAL Nazis!!!" nonsense.