4 ms·

I have a hunch that Snowden is a spy himself. Like Cypher in The Matrix, who wanted his machine masters to reinsert him as a celebrity after his betrayal, Sno

I have a hunch that Snowden is a spy himself. Like Cypher in The Matrix, who wanted his machine masters to reinsert him as a celebrity after his betrayal, Snowden's Russian masters made him into a celebrity after his betrayal.

ben_w 4y ago
If nobody in Russia so much as tried to milk Snowden for all he's worth, someone ought to have been fired. However, every impression I have of Snowden is that he is patriotic to the USA, and that the sole reason he is in Russia now is genuinely because of the pressure that the government of USA put on every other government to turn him over.
- plonk 4y ago
  > However, every impression I have of Snowden is that he is patriotic to the USA, and that the sole reason he is in Russia now is genuinely because of the pressure that the government of USA put on every other government to turn him over. Can be both. NSA contractor sees unethical secret programs, gets disillusioned and considers disclosing them, Russian SVR somehow picks that up and encourages him to do it, maybe promises him support, money, or refuge if he does. Everybody wins, except the US.
  - simoncion 4y ago
    Snowden is in Russia because the US State Department revoked his passport, either leaving him stranded in Russia, or leaving him in limbo in the air between Hong Kong and Moscow (depending on exactly when they revoked it): https://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-the-justice-system/edward-snowden-passport-revoked https://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-the-justice-system/edw... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/edward-snowden-interview_n_5403117 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/edward-snowden-interview_n_54... https://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/u_s_revokes_snowdens_passport_sources_say/ https://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/u_s_revokes_snowdens_passpo... That's it. End of story. I remember reports that his likely ultimate destination was Venezuela or Guatemala, but these are distant, fuzzy memories, so they may not be correct. Folks have made a _ton_ of hay out of the fact that Snowden ended up in Russia... but the truth of the matter is that he's there because the State Department stranded him there.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Ecuador.
    - plonk 4y ago
      What makes you sure that the public story is the real one? It doesn't seem that hard to plan for Snowden to be in the right airport at the time his passport gets revoked, with some support. The fact that neither the US nor Russia went on record saying the opposite means nothing. The US might not believe they have anything to gain by trying to convince people that Snowden is a Russian agent. Doesn't mean it's false.
      - ben_w 4y ago
        What would such support look like? I don’t have any reason to expect that the timing of the revocation would be sufficiently in his control to do that.
        plonk 4y ago
        That’s not what I meant. Assuming that Snowden had support from the Russian state, his handlers could easily guess how long his passport would last and help him get to the right places at the right time. Nothing public proves it, but neither does the GP have grounds to be confident that Snowden really got stuck in Russia by chance.
        ben_w 4y ago
        That’s within bounds for what I was talking about. I don’t see how that can be done with any reliability. (Only thing there that fits is the recent demonstration of the Russian government acting like half-arsed movie plots are a good idea in real life).
        plonk 4y ago
        > (Only thing there that fits is the recent demonstration of the Russian government acting like half-arsed movie plots are a good idea in real life). A lot of papers suggested that the war incompetence was because Putin asked for support for his invasion, and the services knew their job was to get him that irrespective of reality. If there was any operation to take advantage of Snowden, it probably wasn't under such pressure, and I imagine the Russian services have some competent people that could pull it off.
adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
if the us didn't want him in Russia, why did they cancel his passport when he was in the Russian airport?
- mpyne 4y ago
  They canceled his passport even before he left China. He's always been welcome to return to the USA to face justice. But that's not what he wanted, and that's why he's in Russia, and why he was at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong for multiple days before he finally departed on a plane to Moscow [1]. He's a defector, so he's currently exactly where he wanted to be when he left. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-at-russian-consulate-while-in-hong-kong/2013/08/26/8237cf9a-0e39-11e3-a2b3-5e107edf9897_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-a...
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    "Justice".

ben_w 4y ago

If nobody in Russia so much as tried to milk Snowden for all he's worth, someone ought to have been fired. However, every impression I have of Snowden is that he is patriotic to the USA, and that the sole reason he is in Russia now is genuinely because of the pressure that the government of USA put on every other government to turn him over.

plonk 4y ago
> However, every impression I have of Snowden is that he is patriotic to the USA, and that the sole reason he is in Russia now is genuinely because of the pressure that the government of USA put on every other government to turn him over. Can be both. NSA contractor sees unethical secret programs, gets disillusioned and considers disclosing them, Russian SVR somehow picks that up and encourages him to do it, maybe promises him support, money, or refuge if he does. Everybody wins, except the US.
- simoncion 4y ago
  Snowden is in Russia because the US State Department revoked his passport, either leaving him stranded in Russia, or leaving him in limbo in the air between Hong Kong and Moscow (depending on exactly when they revoked it): https://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-the-justice-system/edward-snowden-passport-revoked https://www.laprogressive.com/law-and-the-justice-system/edw... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/edward-snowden-interview_n_5403117 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/edward-snowden-interview_n_54... https://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/u_s_revokes_snowdens_passport_sources_say/ https://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/u_s_revokes_snowdens_passpo... That's it. End of story. I remember reports that his likely ultimate destination was Venezuela or Guatemala, but these are distant, fuzzy memories, so they may not be correct. Folks have made a _ton_ of hay out of the fact that Snowden ended up in Russia... but the truth of the matter is that he's there because the State Department stranded him there.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Ecuador.
  - plonk 4y ago
    What makes you sure that the public story is the real one? It doesn't seem that hard to plan for Snowden to be in the right airport at the time his passport gets revoked, with some support. The fact that neither the US nor Russia went on record saying the opposite means nothing. The US might not believe they have anything to gain by trying to convince people that Snowden is a Russian agent. Doesn't mean it's false.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      What would such support look like? I don’t have any reason to expect that the timing of the revocation would be sufficiently in his control to do that.
      - plonk 4y ago
        That’s not what I meant. Assuming that Snowden had support from the Russian state, his handlers could easily guess how long his passport would last and help him get to the right places at the right time. Nothing public proves it, but neither does the GP have grounds to be confident that Snowden really got stuck in Russia by chance.
        ben_w 4y ago
        That’s within bounds for what I was talking about. I don’t see how that can be done with any reliability. (Only thing there that fits is the recent demonstration of the Russian government acting like half-arsed movie plots are a good idea in real life).
        plonk 4y ago
        > (Only thing there that fits is the recent demonstration of the Russian government acting like half-arsed movie plots are a good idea in real life). A lot of papers suggested that the war incompetence was because Putin asked for support for his invasion, and the services knew their job was to get him that irrespective of reality. If there was any operation to take advantage of Snowden, it probably wasn't under such pressure, and I imagine the Russian services have some competent people that could pull it off.

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago

if the us didn't want him in Russia, why did they cancel his passport when he was in the Russian airport?

mpyne 4y ago
They canceled his passport even before he left China. He's always been welcome to return to the USA to face justice. But that's not what he wanted, and that's why he's in Russia, and why he was at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong for multiple days before he finally departed on a plane to Moscow [1]. He's a defector, so he's currently exactly where he wanted to be when he left. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-at-russian-consulate-while-in-hong-kong/2013/08/26/8237cf9a-0e39-11e3-a2b3-5e107edf9897_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-a...
- ncmncm 4y ago
  "Justice".