5 ms·

Usually works but sometimes there's no one at the kiosk. > I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to disincentivize the use of the trains and stations as

by axit 4y ago

Usually works but sometimes there's no one at the kiosk. > I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to disincentivize the use of the trains and stations as shelters by the unhoused. Time limits around entry exit could be useful here, where you can exit within 10 minutes of entry there is no charge. Reason for exiting at the same station for me is the train is delayed by 30 minutes and I forgot to check the next train before entering the station. More stories on excursion fare: https://twitter.com/graue/status/1554998671384756229 https://twitter.com/graue/status/1554998671384756229

CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
Neat link. From BART’s tweet response: > You can request an excursion fare refund with Clipper. This is true and wasn’t mentioned in the article, but should have been.
etrautmann 4y ago
exactly - it seems braindead obvious to me that there should be a 5-minute window for exiting without charge. Not implementing such an obvious and trivial feature can only be interpreted as deliberately taking money without delivering value for riders because....it's possible?
- jonas21 4y ago
  Until recently, BART used magstripe tickets where all information was stored on the ticket itself. It might not have been possible to implement a time window with that. That doesn't explain why they didn't add this when migrating to the Clipper card, but I feel like "nobody thought to change it" or "we wanted to reduce risk by not introducing changes while migrating" seem like more likely explanations than malice.
  - magila 4y ago
    I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational decision. BART makes more money with the fee than without, so absent political pressure to discontinue it why would they? Also, Clipper cards have been around many years. They aren't a recent addition to BART.
    - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
      >I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational decision. BART makes more money with the fee than without by taking money from those weaker than it, since it is a large well financed organization and the people riding it will not be equipped to fight it (legally), that's malicious.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - andrewxdiamond 4y ago
      I’d take it further and say this isn’t intentional at all. Having worked in, for, and around governments, this was almost certainly an oversight that hasn’t been a big enough of a fire in comparison to the other fires. Making a public stink about it makes it a bigger fire though, so the system is working as intended!
    - candu 4y ago
      "I wouldn't call it _malice_. I make more money robbing travellers on the King's road than not doing so, and it's very unlikely I'll get caught!" Assuming a value system in which certain acts are wrong even if not observed / punished, some acts can be rational _and_ malicious. (This isn't intended to say anything either way about BART's actions here, which are obviously not the same as literal robbery; I'm mainly disputing the idea that rational acts can't be malicious.)
    - jonas21 4y ago
      While Clipper cards have been around for a while, it was a very long migration process. BART didn't stop selling the magstripe tickets in vending machines until 2020, and continued to use them for discounted fares through the end of 2021 [1]. [1] https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2021/news20210908 https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2021/news20210908
    - panarky 4y ago

by axit 4y ago

CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago

Neat link. From BART’s tweet response: > You can request an excursion fare refund with Clipper. This is true and wasn’t mentioned in the article, but should have been.

etrautmann 4y ago

exactly - it seems braindead obvious to me that there should be a 5-minute window for exiting without charge. Not implementing such an obvious and trivial feature can only be interpreted as deliberately taking money without delivering value for riders because....it's possible?

jonas21 4y ago
Until recently, BART used magstripe tickets where all information was stored on the ticket itself. It might not have been possible to implement a time window with that. That doesn't explain why they didn't add this when migrating to the Clipper card, but I feel like "nobody thought to change it" or "we wanted to reduce risk by not introducing changes while migrating" seem like more likely explanations than malice.
- magila 4y ago
  I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational decision. BART makes more money with the fee than without, so absent political pressure to discontinue it why would they? Also, Clipper cards have been around many years. They aren't a recent addition to BART.
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    >I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational decision. BART makes more money with the fee than without by taking money from those weaker than it, since it is a large well financed organization and the people riding it will not be equipped to fight it (legally), that's malicious.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - andrewxdiamond 4y ago
    I’d take it further and say this isn’t intentional at all. Having worked in, for, and around governments, this was almost certainly an oversight that hasn’t been a big enough of a fire in comparison to the other fires. Making a public stink about it makes it a bigger fire though, so the system is working as intended!
  - candu 4y ago
    "I wouldn't call it _malice_. I make more money robbing travellers on the King's road than not doing so, and it's very unlikely I'll get caught!" Assuming a value system in which certain acts are wrong even if not observed / punished, some acts can be rational _and_ malicious. (This isn't intended to say anything either way about BART's actions here, which are obviously not the same as literal robbery; I'm mainly disputing the idea that rational acts can't be malicious.)
  - jonas21 4y ago
    While Clipper cards have been around for a while, it was a very long migration process. BART didn't stop selling the magstripe tickets in vending machines until 2020, and continued to use them for discounted fares through the end of 2021 [1]. [1] https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2021/news20210908 https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2021/news20210908
  - panarky 4y ago