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Notably, PFAS are in the food supply chain to a significant and non transparent degree. Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS. The extruders

Notably, PFAS are in the food supply chain to a significant and non transparent degree. Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS. The extruders that make your dried pasta and other machine parts that make other processed foods are coated with PFAS. The paper that your sandwich is packed in is coated with PFAS. The paper straw that replaced your plastic one, to save the turtles...is coated with PFAS. Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? That's the food supply. Don't get me started on everything else. The device you are touching right now, your cell phone screen, is coated with PFAS.

pengaru 4y ago
> Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? Maybe everyone just assumes it's a relatively harmless wax coating like ye old Dixie cups and not some "forever chemical?"
- hammock 4y ago
  Yes. And coated cups like the kind you get for coffee don't use wax anymore (and if they do it's petroleum derived paraffin). They are more likely to use a high-temp polymer
  - Enginerrrd 4y ago
    Paraffin is what most people are thinking of when someone uses the term "wax". I don't think there's an inherent problem there.
  - cfraenkel 4y ago
    Says you. Doesn't explain why drinking coffee from them triggers a corn allergy, while the exact same coffee from the same store/barrista in a ceramic cup is fine.
    - hammock 4y ago
      Not sure what you're referring to, but many of the cups use PLA liners which is corn plastic ("plant-based alternative"). So that stuff is not from petroleum. You ought to be able to identify, it's usually labeled on the cup, or the packaging
  - bergenty 4y ago
    Petroleum derived wax isn’t really a problem is it?
  - 104c3ed3 4y ago
    For moisture resistance, paper cups are coated with plastic (typically polyethylene or polylactic acid) or wax (typically parafin). Sources: - https://papercupcompany.net https://papercupcompany.net - https://bioplasticsnews.com/polylactic-acid-or-polylactide-pla https://bioplasticsnews.com/polylactic-acid-or-polylactide-p... - http://tylertalkstrash.com/2013/06/02/can-you-compost-paper-cups-reposted-from-crazyaboutcompost-com http://tylertalkstrash.com/2013/06/02/can-you-compost-paper-...
dacohenii 4y ago
25%? Like, one-quarter of the mass of the salad bowl? Not parts-per-million?
- droopyEyelids 4y ago
  yes, PFAS based chemicals are the replacement for wax in 'waxed paper' style products.
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    Why not just stick to wax?
    - droopyEyelids 4y ago
      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it wasn't actually my decision
  - bruce343434 4y ago
    Source?
    - beowulfey 4y ago
      "Paper/paperboard food packaging: PFAS may be used as grease-proofing agents in fast-food wrappers, microwave popcorn bags, take-out paperboard containers, and pet food bags to prevent oil and grease from foods from leaking through the packaging." https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/authorized-uses-pfas-food-contact-applications https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/authoriz...
m_a_g 4y ago
I guess the question is, does this coating contaminate and stick to the food? If so at which temperature? Does the content of the food matters? (for example acidity)
bergenty 4y ago
The question is does all of that have to be coated with PFAS? This is a solved problem, people have been using wax two centuries ago.
Steve44 4y ago
> Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS Do you have a source for that? I work with these and as far as I'm aware they are made with bagasse[1] and are not coated. The hard surface comes from pressure and heat. Even in standard PE lined paper coffee cups the plastic is only 3-4& by weight, the rest being virgin paperboard. Some of the board products, like the take-away containers and "plastic free" paper coffee cups use an aqueous dispersion coating. The manufacturers are generally quite cagey about what's in it because it's commercially sensitive, but they are all certified for direct food contact. [1] It's a by-product of sugar cane.

pengaru 4y ago

> Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? Maybe everyone just assumes it's a relatively harmless wax coating like ye old Dixie cups and not some "forever chemical?"

hammock 4y ago
Yes. And coated cups like the kind you get for coffee don't use wax anymore (and if they do it's petroleum derived paraffin). They are more likely to use a high-temp polymer
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  Paraffin is what most people are thinking of when someone uses the term "wax". I don't think there's an inherent problem there.
- cfraenkel 4y ago
  Says you. Doesn't explain why drinking coffee from them triggers a corn allergy, while the exact same coffee from the same store/barrista in a ceramic cup is fine.
  - hammock 4y ago
    Not sure what you're referring to, but many of the cups use PLA liners which is corn plastic ("plant-based alternative"). So that stuff is not from petroleum. You ought to be able to identify, it's usually labeled on the cup, or the packaging
- bergenty 4y ago
  Petroleum derived wax isn’t really a problem is it?
- 104c3ed3 4y ago
  For moisture resistance, paper cups are coated with plastic (typically polyethylene or polylactic acid) or wax (typically parafin). Sources: - https://papercupcompany.net https://papercupcompany.net - https://bioplasticsnews.com/polylactic-acid-or-polylactide-pla https://bioplasticsnews.com/polylactic-acid-or-polylactide-p... - http://tylertalkstrash.com/2013/06/02/can-you-compost-paper-cups-reposted-from-crazyaboutcompost-com http://tylertalkstrash.com/2013/06/02/can-you-compost-paper-...

dacohenii 4y ago

25%? Like, one-quarter of the mass of the salad bowl? Not parts-per-million?

droopyEyelids 4y ago
yes, PFAS based chemicals are the replacement for wax in 'waxed paper' style products.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  Why not just stick to wax?
  - droopyEyelids 4y ago
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it wasn't actually my decision
- bruce343434 4y ago
  Source?
  - beowulfey 4y ago
    "Paper/paperboard food packaging: PFAS may be used as grease-proofing agents in fast-food wrappers, microwave popcorn bags, take-out paperboard containers, and pet food bags to prevent oil and grease from foods from leaking through the packaging." https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/authorized-uses-pfas-food-contact-applications https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/authoriz...

m_a_g 4y ago

I guess the question is, does this coating contaminate and stick to the food? If so at which temperature? Does the content of the food matters? (for example acidity)

bergenty 4y ago

The question is does all of that have to be coated with PFAS? This is a solved problem, people have been using wax two centuries ago.

Steve44 4y ago

> Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS Do you have a source for that? I work with these and as far as I'm aware they are made with bagasse[1] and are not coated. The hard surface comes from pressure and heat. Even in standard PE lined paper coffee cups the plastic is only 3-4& by weight, the rest being virgin paperboard. Some of the board products, like the take-away containers and "plastic free" paper coffee cups use an aqueous dispersion coating. The manufacturers are generally quite cagey about what's in it because it's commercially sensitive, but they are all certified for direct food contact. [1] It's a by-product of sugar cane.