4 ms·

There are people who believe that. There's also the fact that wealthier (read: white) parents can doctor shop around and force little Brayden into the Gifted tr

There are people who believe that. There's also the fact that wealthier (read: white) parents can doctor shop around and force little Brayden into the Gifted track. The result of those forces is wildly regressive, especially when schools are so underfunded. Poor kids and minority kids wind up in classrooms that are doubly starved for resources. Funding education to the point where schools have tracks that students can move between (advanced, normal, remedial) would be much more equitable and much better pedagogically too.

photochemsyn 4y ago
This claim about wealth == white isn't all that accurate. Last I checked the sub-poverty population in the USA has an ancestral breakdown of 45% european 25% african 25% south/central american 5% asian/native north american. While the wealthiest 1% is overwhelmingly european those people uniformly send their children to private schools with lots of resources and hire private tutors for their college entrance exams. In any case, nothing in your comment justifies eliminating advanced learning programs in any school, even if some parents want to push their kids into such programs even if they're not really ready for it.
smcin 4y ago
Why is "doctor shopping" in any way related to admission to the Gifted track? For everyone unfamiliar with the unique peculiarities of the US setup on GATE (Gifted-and-Talented Education). Are you referring to doctor-shopping for ADHD or autism diagnoses, esp. in 4-7-year-olds, as is rampant in the US? Or something else? And how numerically does that influence GATE admission rates? (In the past I've looked for (aggregate) statistics on autism/ADHD diagnoses influencing SAT scores or college admission rates, but the industry increasingly invokes "healthcare privacy" to hide even reporting anonymized aggregate statistics, per-zipcode/per-school/per-college). I believe the record is held by one zipcode in Connecticut where 18% of schoolchildren have autism diagnoses. > Funding education... would be much more equitable... Again the US setup is peculiar: most (public) school funding comes from local (school-district) and state level, with a tiny amound of federal funding. Hence zipcodes are a strong proxy for much of this.
- scarmig 4y ago
  Doctor shopping isn't necessarily the best analogy, but it's also true that parental pressure on school bureaucracy can result in their student being placed into a program they otherwise wouldn't have.
rhino369 4y ago
The problem is many people don't want to admit that the privileges of wealth and status don't just create bias, but they actually make better students. So you'll never have equality of outcome--never. Sure some bribery and networking occur. But they also send their kids to tutors, set high expectations, don't let them watch too much TV/tablet, have better diets, etc. Nothing about gifted programs requires that non-gifted classrooms need to be underfunded.
- DaveExeter 4y ago
  >The problem is many people don't want to admit that the privileges of wealth and status don't just create bias, but they actually make better students. So you'll never have equality of outcome--never. This is confusing cause and effect. People of higher intelligence end up with wealth and status, and since intelligence is genetic, their children generally have higher intelligence then average.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    Intelligence is far far far from 100% genetic.
    - DaveExeter 4y ago
      Nope! Intelligence is 100% genetic. Ok, obviously ingesting lead or not being fed can lead to a decrease in IQ. Just as not being fed as a child can lead to a decrease in adult height, but we can still say that height is 100% genetic.
  - hellisothers 4y ago
    I don’t think the OP was talking about genetics, I think they’re referencing that wealthy families are able to focus more resources on learning/education and thus generate “better students” via nurture not nature.
bnralt 4y ago
> Poor kids and minority kids wind up in classrooms that are doubly starved for resources. People always assume this to be the case, but it doesn't seem to be true whenever I look at specific school districts. For example, D.C. and Baltimore public schools have a student body with _many_ more poor and minority children than the national average, and the per pupil spending at these schools is also well above the national average.
- junofan 4y ago
  It’s effective rhetoric to direct funding to underperforming schools, as the data shows.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
>Funding education to the point where schools have tracks that students can move between (advanced, normal, remedial) I obviously don't know anything about your educational background, but the two run-of-the-mill public schools I attended growing up both let people move into and fall out of the top tracks. Having said that, it became progressively rarer over time as the work required to catch up became greater and greater, and, on the other hand, as the cohort increasingly committed to and identified with their schoolwork.

photochemsyn 4y ago

This claim about wealth == white isn't all that accurate. Last I checked the sub-poverty population in the USA has an ancestral breakdown of 45% european 25% african 25% south/central american 5% asian/native north american. While the wealthiest 1% is overwhelmingly european those people uniformly send their children to private schools with lots of resources and hire private tutors for their college entrance exams. In any case, nothing in your comment justifies eliminating advanced learning programs in any school, even if some parents want to push their kids into such programs even if they're not really ready for it.

smcin 4y ago

Why is "doctor shopping" in any way related to admission to the Gifted track? For everyone unfamiliar with the unique peculiarities of the US setup on GATE (Gifted-and-Talented Education). Are you referring to doctor-shopping for ADHD or autism diagnoses, esp. in 4-7-year-olds, as is rampant in the US? Or something else? And how numerically does that influence GATE admission rates? (In the past I've looked for (aggregate) statistics on autism/ADHD diagnoses influencing SAT scores or college admission rates, but the industry increasingly invokes "healthcare privacy" to hide even reporting anonymized aggregate statistics, per-zipcode/per-school/per-college). I believe the record is held by one zipcode in Connecticut where 18% of schoolchildren have autism diagnoses. > Funding education... would be much more equitable... Again the US setup is peculiar: most (public) school funding comes from local (school-district) and state level, with a tiny amound of federal funding. Hence zipcodes are a strong proxy for much of this.

scarmig 4y ago
Doctor shopping isn't necessarily the best analogy, but it's also true that parental pressure on school bureaucracy can result in their student being placed into a program they otherwise wouldn't have.

rhino369 4y ago

The problem is many people don't want to admit that the privileges of wealth and status don't just create bias, but they actually make better students. So you'll never have equality of outcome--never. Sure some bribery and networking occur. But they also send their kids to tutors, set high expectations, don't let them watch too much TV/tablet, have better diets, etc. Nothing about gifted programs requires that non-gifted classrooms need to be underfunded.

DaveExeter 4y ago
>The problem is many people don't want to admit that the privileges of wealth and status don't just create bias, but they actually make better students. So you'll never have equality of outcome--never. This is confusing cause and effect. People of higher intelligence end up with wealth and status, and since intelligence is genetic, their children generally have higher intelligence then average.
- rhino369 4y ago
  Intelligence is far far far from 100% genetic.
  - DaveExeter 4y ago
    Nope! Intelligence is 100% genetic. Ok, obviously ingesting lead or not being fed can lead to a decrease in IQ. Just as not being fed as a child can lead to a decrease in adult height, but we can still say that height is 100% genetic.
- hellisothers 4y ago
  I don’t think the OP was talking about genetics, I think they’re referencing that wealthy families are able to focus more resources on learning/education and thus generate “better students” via nurture not nature.

bnralt 4y ago

> Poor kids and minority kids wind up in classrooms that are doubly starved for resources. People always assume this to be the case, but it doesn't seem to be true whenever I look at specific school districts. For example, D.C. and Baltimore public schools have a student body with _many_ more poor and minority children than the national average, and the per pupil spending at these schools is also well above the national average.

junofan 4y ago
It’s effective rhetoric to direct funding to underperforming schools, as the data shows.

QuarterReptile 4y ago

>Funding education to the point where schools have tracks that students can move between (advanced, normal, remedial) I obviously don't know anything about your educational background, but the two run-of-the-mill public schools I attended growing up both let people move into and fall out of the top tracks. Having said that, it became progressively rarer over time as the work required to catch up became greater and greater, and, on the other hand, as the cohort increasingly committed to and identified with their schoolwork.