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> This is not a change that is happening, from my experience, in the Gaeltacht raised with traditional Irish speaking parents. Of which there are less and less

by messe 4y ago

> This is not a change that is happening, from my experience, in the Gaeltacht raised with traditional Irish speaking parents. Of which there are less and less of. I think the only way Irish can survive in the long term is in a semi-creolized form with a lot of English influence. It's all well and good trying to codify a variety of "proper Irish", but realistically if it is to gain any amount of new speakers, it's going to have significant influence from the native languages of those new speakers—which will be English. This isn't unnatural. Languages are influenced by non-native speakers all the time. See English: a Germanic language with much of its vocabulary derived from Norman French, Latin, and Greek, and a loss of almost all inflection save for some irregular verbs, and referring to ships in the feminine. Look, I'd like as much as the next person to preserve Irish as native speakers speak it, but the chance to do that died over a century ago.

dorchadas 4y ago
> I think the only way Irish can survive in the long term is in a semi-creolized form with a lot of English influence. Then that's not Irish. It's a Neo-Irish creole. Which is fine -- great even! -- but let's call it what it is. > See English: a Germanic language with much of its vocabulary derived from Norman French, Latin, and Greek, and a loss of almost all inflection save for some irregular verbs, and referring to ships in the feminine. There's a huge difference between what's going on with Irish and what happened with English under Norman rule. For instance, the sound system is still fairly Germanic, the grammar most definitely is. Both these things are being lost in Neo-Irish. > Look, I'd like as much as the next person to preserve Irish as native speakers speak it, but the chance to do that died over a century ago. I think there is still a chance, if radical steps are taken. Sadly, you're right; they won't be taken. I'm fine with something surviving, but we need to be honest about what it is, and how the State has failed those who actually speak traditional Irish and all but guaranteed its death, thanks, in part, to the way it implemented it in the schools. It should've always been a Gaeltacht outward revival.

by messe 4y ago

dorchadas 4y ago

> I think the only way Irish can survive in the long term is in a semi-creolized form with a lot of English influence. Then that's not Irish. It's a Neo-Irish creole. Which is fine -- great even! -- but let's call it what it is. > See English: a Germanic language with much of its vocabulary derived from Norman French, Latin, and Greek, and a loss of almost all inflection save for some irregular verbs, and referring to ships in the feminine. There's a huge difference between what's going on with Irish and what happened with English under Norman rule. For instance, the sound system is still fairly Germanic, the grammar most definitely is. Both these things are being lost in Neo-Irish. > Look, I'd like as much as the next person to preserve Irish as native speakers speak it, but the chance to do that died over a century ago. I think there is still a chance, if radical steps are taken. Sadly, you're right; they won't be taken. I'm fine with something surviving, but we need to be honest about what it is, and how the State has failed those who actually speak traditional Irish and all but guaranteed its death, thanks, in part, to the way it implemented it in the schools. It should've always been a Gaeltacht outward revival.