4 ms·

Why does it matter? BlackRock can't print extra bitcoins, can't take them away from you (unless you give it to them to manage it first), can't block you from sp

Why does it matter? BlackRock can't print extra bitcoins, can't take them away from you (unless you give it to them to manage it first), can't block you from spending it one way or another, can't prevent you from sending it to someone else, can't block you from receiving it from someone... so, yeah.. the only problems are market manipulations, which ave been happening from day one. In comparison, governments can print extra money (and they did, fucking up the economy with that), they can block your accounts, they can block accounts from people you want to send money to, they can block international money transfers if they don't like the other country, and in case of fully digital currencies, they can implement all the conspiracy theories, from social scores onwards...

soperj 4y ago
> governments can print extra money Aren't most coins doing exactly that constantly when people mine them?
- Empact 4y ago
  The coins have to be introduced to the market somehow. Mining is a fair, open way to distribute these new funds. Literally anyone can participate on equal terms. In the case of bitcoin, the monetary inflation/issuance rate of bitcoin is currently ~1.7%, below the Fed's target for the USD, and will drop by 50% in 2024. https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-inflation/ https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-inflation/
  - _hcuq 4y ago
    And anyone with a bit of marketing power can create a new crypto currency.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      As @aantonop has said for a long time... "the next bitcoin, is bitcoin" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ftZgCEZos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ftZgCEZos
    - mtbvg5 4y ago
      Anyone with a bit of marketing power can create a new tech company. Tech is a scam.
      - _hcuq 4y ago
        There’s actually some truth to that. More than one tech company turned out to be fraud.
- lottin 4y ago
  Exchanges can also print extra bitcoins.
katbyte 4y ago
Didn’t crypto just crash and the bottom fall out on a bunch of coins/tokens because of mismanagement and scams? seems like Goverment or crypto people fill find a way to screw with the system
- anshorei 4y ago
  > mismanagement and scams Just because some coins are mismanaged or are scams does not speak for the technology in itself. Only to the fact that a lot of crypto "investors" don't actually understand crypto.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    This seems like the crypto version of "no true Scotsman" mixed with the "just world" fallacy. If someone loses money to a scam or rug pull they "don't actually understand crypto". How do we know? Because they lost money in a scam or rug pull - if they understood crypto they wouldn't have done that. Meanwhile, the technology and ecosystem around it can't be questioned.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      If someone cons you into joining a ponzi around selling vacations, don't get pissed at everyone enjoying their vacation if you fall for it.
jiggywiggy 4y ago
If you think the government doesnt have the power to knock on your door and take away your bitcoin you are delusional.
- jonathan-adly 4y ago
  Wrench-attacking one person is easy. Wrench attacking 10% of your population is impossible. In CS terms - Digital Central Bank money is O(1) to control. Bitcoin is O(n2).
  - jiggywiggy 4y ago
    If that would be needed it would be taken into control
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    It’s not though and nobody needs a wrench. Pretty easy to prevent any institution to exchange crypto for dollars and then you have a black market only currency with a plummeting value and usage which is criminal.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    > Wrench attacking 10% of your population is impossible. With digital goods/currencies, you just need to compromise their software. It's actually a lot easier, logistically, to confiscate bitcoin from 10% of your population than to confiscate cash from the same. How hard and for how long do you think Apple/Microsoft/Google could resist a legal mandate to block/confiscate bitcoin passing through the computer/phone OS that you use?
    - latchkey 4y ago
      > How hard and for how long do you think Apple/Microsoft/Google could resist a legal mandate to block/confiscate bitcoin passing through the computer/phone OS that you use? FB used a fun technique to get into the Vietnamese market. They got enough users onboarded that the government had no choice but to let people use their apps or face a huge amount of backlash for denying people access.
iratewizard 4y ago
People are wary of these God-complex "elites" and their entourage of sociopaths wherever they go. It doesn't matter if it's them getting into Bitcoin or them getting into soup kitchens. The end result is always bad for society at large.
pjc50 4y ago
The TornadoCash arrest is still high up on HN. If you think completely unaccountable money is going to be left alone you are mistaken. I only fear that the backlash is going to be excessive and leave the rest of us with intrusive restrictions.
- cassonmars 4y ago
  It’s just the return of the crypto wars from the 90s. And privacy isn’t going to go down without a fight.
boplicity 4y ago
You're arguing that crypocurrency is a form of stable currency that can be trusted. This argument, frankly, seems bizarre, given the short and tumultuous history of crypto.
- newsclues 4y ago
  Crypto seems to have the same problems as regular currency
  - boplicity 4y ago
    Most regular currency doesn't have insane amounts of inflation/deflation the way crypto does...
- mbesto 4y ago
  > You're arguing that crypocurrency is a form of stable currency that can be trusted. Actually, I don't think the parent comment was saying that. They were just listing out the defining features. > This argument, frankly, seems bizarre, given the short and tumultuous history of crypto. Agreed, because the features that the parent mention are inherently what make it deflationary. I don't know anyone who would actively want a deflationary currency.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> BlackRock can't print extra bitcoins BlackRock can't print extra shares of the components that make up the S&P500 that most mutual funds/ETFs invest in either (I realized after you were alluding to the US government printing USD, not the stock market)

soperj 4y ago

> governments can print extra money Aren't most coins doing exactly that constantly when people mine them?

Empact 4y ago
The coins have to be introduced to the market somehow. Mining is a fair, open way to distribute these new funds. Literally anyone can participate on equal terms. In the case of bitcoin, the monetary inflation/issuance rate of bitcoin is currently ~1.7%, below the Fed's target for the USD, and will drop by 50% in 2024. https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-inflation/ https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-inflation/
- _hcuq 4y ago
  And anyone with a bit of marketing power can create a new crypto currency.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    As @aantonop has said for a long time... "the next bitcoin, is bitcoin" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ftZgCEZos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ftZgCEZos
  - mtbvg5 4y ago
    Anyone with a bit of marketing power can create a new tech company. Tech is a scam.
    - _hcuq 4y ago
      There’s actually some truth to that. More than one tech company turned out to be fraud.
lottin 4y ago
Exchanges can also print extra bitcoins.

katbyte 4y ago

Didn’t crypto just crash and the bottom fall out on a bunch of coins/tokens because of mismanagement and scams? seems like Goverment or crypto people fill find a way to screw with the system

anshorei 4y ago
> mismanagement and scams Just because some coins are mismanaged or are scams does not speak for the technology in itself. Only to the fact that a lot of crypto "investors" don't actually understand crypto.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  This seems like the crypto version of "no true Scotsman" mixed with the "just world" fallacy. If someone loses money to a scam or rug pull they "don't actually understand crypto". How do we know? Because they lost money in a scam or rug pull - if they understood crypto they wouldn't have done that. Meanwhile, the technology and ecosystem around it can't be questioned.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    If someone cons you into joining a ponzi around selling vacations, don't get pissed at everyone enjoying their vacation if you fall for it.

jiggywiggy 4y ago

If you think the government doesnt have the power to knock on your door and take away your bitcoin you are delusional.

jonathan-adly 4y ago
Wrench-attacking one person is easy. Wrench attacking 10% of your population is impossible. In CS terms - Digital Central Bank money is O(1) to control. Bitcoin is O(n2).
- jiggywiggy 4y ago
  If that would be needed it would be taken into control
- colechristensen 4y ago
  It’s not though and nobody needs a wrench. Pretty easy to prevent any institution to exchange crypto for dollars and then you have a black market only currency with a plummeting value and usage which is criminal.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Wrench attacking 10% of your population is impossible. With digital goods/currencies, you just need to compromise their software. It's actually a lot easier, logistically, to confiscate bitcoin from 10% of your population than to confiscate cash from the same. How hard and for how long do you think Apple/Microsoft/Google could resist a legal mandate to block/confiscate bitcoin passing through the computer/phone OS that you use?
  - latchkey 4y ago
    > How hard and for how long do you think Apple/Microsoft/Google could resist a legal mandate to block/confiscate bitcoin passing through the computer/phone OS that you use? FB used a fun technique to get into the Vietnamese market. They got enough users onboarded that the government had no choice but to let people use their apps or face a huge amount of backlash for denying people access.

iratewizard 4y ago

People are wary of these God-complex "elites" and their entourage of sociopaths wherever they go. It doesn't matter if it's them getting into Bitcoin or them getting into soup kitchens. The end result is always bad for society at large.

pjc50 4y ago

The TornadoCash arrest is still high up on HN. If you think completely unaccountable money is going to be left alone you are mistaken. I only fear that the backlash is going to be excessive and leave the rest of us with intrusive restrictions.

cassonmars 4y ago
It’s just the return of the crypto wars from the 90s. And privacy isn’t going to go down without a fight.

boplicity 4y ago

You're arguing that crypocurrency is a form of stable currency that can be trusted. This argument, frankly, seems bizarre, given the short and tumultuous history of crypto.

newsclues 4y ago
Crypto seems to have the same problems as regular currency
- boplicity 4y ago
  Most regular currency doesn't have insane amounts of inflation/deflation the way crypto does...
mbesto 4y ago
> You're arguing that crypocurrency is a form of stable currency that can be trusted. Actually, I don't think the parent comment was saying that. They were just listing out the defining features. > This argument, frankly, seems bizarre, given the short and tumultuous history of crypto. Agreed, because the features that the parent mention are inherently what make it deflationary. I don't know anyone who would actively want a deflationary currency.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> BlackRock can't print extra bitcoins BlackRock can't print extra shares of the components that make up the S&P500 that most mutual funds/ETFs invest in either (I realized after you were alluding to the US government printing USD, not the stock market)