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> Consciously or not they bet that in 40-60 years the system they live now would remain unchanged … laws to protect savings of the regular people still would be

> Consciously or not they bet that in 40-60 years the system they live now would remain unchanged … laws to protect savings of the regular people still would be in place I really worry about that. I have been steadily saving in my 401(k) for my entire working life, and while it is not a huge amount, it is a few years’ wages. Meanwhile, plenty of people have saved nothing for retirement. I have no assurance that a wealth tax will not be imposed on that 401(k) to fund others’ retirements; I don’t even really have any assurance that income taxes won’t be imposed on Roth IRAs or 401(k)s, despite that being their whole reason for existence. I can easily see some demagogue riling people up and calling me a wrecker or a hoarder because rather than spend my income today I have been saving it for the future. I can easily see a more restrained demagogue calling for me to pay ‘my fair share,’ defining that as some increased amount because I had the foresight and discipline to sacrifice for decades. I can see that money I have been carefully husbanding through financial crises and wars taken from me, and I can see being told that I should be grateful to keep any of it.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
This is why I have avoided Roth IRAs. The deal with IRAs is "put in pre-tax money; we'll tax it when you take it out". The deal with Roth IRAs is "put in post-tax money; it won't be taxed when you take it out". My fear is that the deal will change by the time I'm ready to take it out - that Roth IRAs will in fact be taxed on withdrawal a decade or two from now.
- nicbou 4y ago
  That would still be beneficial
podviaznikov 4y ago
6 years later after writing this post it is still mind blowing to me how stable US is/was. That you could plan something for the life. Maybe it is changing now, but the positive thing is that we can build societies that are stable for few generations. I find this bit aspiring in general (but obviously doesn't help much when thinking about your own pension and financial security). It's a reminder for myself mostly, because again I'm originally from Ukraine and Ukraine didn't have stable peaceful period that lasted even one generation (at least in the past 150 years).
antifa 4y ago
Interesting that when the two loudest political stances are "tax billionaires" and "kick poor people off welfare", someone who will probably have at least a million for retirement is worried about a hypothetical tax policy nobody is proposing.
- Hydraulix989 4y ago
  We already had a policy spanning two separate administrations that punished financially-reponsible people with savings: inflation.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    I recall there being some sort of mitigating circumstance to that policy, which might indicate that inflation’s not some sort of punishment being meted out by an omnipotent, sadistic ruler.
    - Hydraulix989 4y ago
      Ah, that's a separate discussion. As it stands, financially responsible persons' savings were devalued, and whether or not you agree such a heavy hammer was justified, simply from a game theoretic standpoint, per the current thread of discussion, you might expect similar policies in the future to also affect the value of your 401(k) savings and might reconsider whether locking up the prime earnings of your labor in a stagnant account until you are 65 years of age is an optimal strategy for retirement when hedging against ever-increasing prices of everyday necessities. That's just being rational.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

This is why I have avoided Roth IRAs. The deal with IRAs is "put in pre-tax money; we'll tax it when you take it out". The deal with Roth IRAs is "put in post-tax money; it won't be taxed when you take it out". My fear is that the deal will change by the time I'm ready to take it out - that Roth IRAs will in fact be taxed on withdrawal a decade or two from now.

nicbou 4y ago
That would still be beneficial

podviaznikov 4y ago

6 years later after writing this post it is still mind blowing to me how stable US is/was. That you could plan something for the life. Maybe it is changing now, but the positive thing is that we can build societies that are stable for few generations. I find this bit aspiring in general (but obviously doesn't help much when thinking about your own pension and financial security). It's a reminder for myself mostly, because again I'm originally from Ukraine and Ukraine didn't have stable peaceful period that lasted even one generation (at least in the past 150 years).

antifa 4y ago

Interesting that when the two loudest political stances are "tax billionaires" and "kick poor people off welfare", someone who will probably have at least a million for retirement is worried about a hypothetical tax policy nobody is proposing.

Hydraulix989 4y ago
We already had a policy spanning two separate administrations that punished financially-reponsible people with savings: inflation.
- fragmede 4y ago
  I recall there being some sort of mitigating circumstance to that policy, which might indicate that inflation’s not some sort of punishment being meted out by an omnipotent, sadistic ruler.
  - Hydraulix989 4y ago
    Ah, that's a separate discussion. As it stands, financially responsible persons' savings were devalued, and whether or not you agree such a heavy hammer was justified, simply from a game theoretic standpoint, per the current thread of discussion, you might expect similar policies in the future to also affect the value of your 401(k) savings and might reconsider whether locking up the prime earnings of your labor in a stagnant account until you are 65 years of age is an optimal strategy for retirement when hedging against ever-increasing prices of everyday necessities. That's just being rational.