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> rather than going after the people actually committing crimes Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. > Privacy is

> rather than going after the people actually committing crimes Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. > Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right (a) Not a human right, (b) not enshrined in any country's law, (c) does not absolve illegal behaviour.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
Ah, the famed “Hacker” News users advocating for the Big State and against privacy.
- npc54321 4y ago
  - akimball 4y ago
    I think you may mistake the individuals for the whole. HN as a social center can be corrupted and coopted without any of the original individuals changing their behaviors, simply by adding more individuals with different behaviors. If by "they" you mean the individuals, your statement would then be incorrect, while if you mean the community gestalt, it would be correct.
    - npc54321 4y ago
      Good point.
- malermeister 4y ago
  Just because you're a hacker doesn't mean you have to be an anarchist, anti-state extremist.
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  Haven’t you heard? The new definition of hacker is a 40something year old making 300k a year writing adtech tracking code for a FAANG
  - gfodor 4y ago
    It has been wild watching this crowd slowly morph over the past decade or so, largely, into exactly what feels like this.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    Ageism here is unwarranted. I'd assume there are now more 40something years olds keeping the traditional hacker values (before "hacker" became to mean "dude stealing money from gullible strangers over the internet") than there are 20something years olds. Because they actually might have been the part of that old hacker culture (not sure if it even exists now?). Now even in the best tech schools they'd probably teach you the most important thing on the internet (after the adtech of course) is to make AIs to ban "hate speech" and "misinformation". And if the independent hacker culture still exists, it's certainly not easy to find among the noise.
BobbyJo 4y ago
Privacy is very much enshrined in US law, it's the 4th amendment to our constitution.
- rchaud 4y ago
  Strange how the NSA can just skate through this. Then again, the US Constitution also says "All men are created equal" and that was a bunch of horseshit for centuries.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    Laws need people willing to uphold them. It's a good thing when laws are unreasonable, and a bad thing when people are unreasonable.
  - tzs 4y ago
    > Then again, the US Constitution also says "All men are created equal" Nope. You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence.
- threeseed 4y ago
  4th amendment is specifically limited to unreasonable search and seizures. It doesn't mean that you have the right to privacy in any and all situations.
dimensionc132 4y ago
United Nations Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) 1948, Article 12: “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.” International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) 1966, Article 1: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honor or reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
RansomStark 4y ago
> Not a human right The UN disagrees. Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks". [0] You can argue what the right to privacy means and the limitations of that freedom in respect of non-arbitrary interference are acceptable, but to claim privacy is not a human right is simply incorrect. [0] https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  Does the UN declaration have the force of law anywhere? Or is is more of a "we wish it worked like this" document?
  - estebank 4y ago
    > Although not legally binding, the contents of the UDHR have been elaborated and incorporated into subsequent international treaties, regional human rights instruments, and national constitutions and legal codes. Third paragraph at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human...
biglearner1day 4y ago
> Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. But only if it is in their interest. We don't see other services and platforms sanctioned for facilitating illegal activity. Furthermore, the Data Protection Directive does give users the (human!) right to privacy, considering that crypto isn't a currency, it's merely your private data which is also protected by GDPR.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jjulius 4y ago
  >We don't see other services and platforms sanctioned for facilitating illegal activity. ... yes we do, lol. You hear about people being arrested and platforms shut down for facilitating financial crimes in the crypto space all the time.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > We don't see other services and platforms sanctioned for facilitating illegal activity. How about the various anti-money laundering regulations and agencies around the world, e.g. https://www.fincen.gov/history-anti-money-laundering-laws https://www.fincen.gov/history-anti-money-laundering-laws How about the US Dept. of the Treasury's program against Transnational Criminal Organizations, which includes sanctions: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/transnational-criminal-organizations https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...
cjg 4y ago
https://www.coe.int/en/web/impact-convention-human-rights/right-to-privacy https://www.coe.int/en/web/impact-convention-human-rights/ri...
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  There is zero law suggesting financial transactions are subject to Article 8 protection.
  - duncan_idaho 4y ago
    What about right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Ah, the famed “Hacker” News users advocating for the Big State and against privacy.

npc54321 4y ago
- akimball 4y ago
  I think you may mistake the individuals for the whole. HN as a social center can be corrupted and coopted without any of the original individuals changing their behaviors, simply by adding more individuals with different behaviors. If by "they" you mean the individuals, your statement would then be incorrect, while if you mean the community gestalt, it would be correct.
  - npc54321 4y ago
    Good point.
malermeister 4y ago
Just because you're a hacker doesn't mean you have to be an anarchist, anti-state extremist.
drexlspivey 4y ago
Haven’t you heard? The new definition of hacker is a 40something year old making 300k a year writing adtech tracking code for a FAANG
- gfodor 4y ago
  It has been wild watching this crowd slowly morph over the past decade or so, largely, into exactly what feels like this.
- smsm42 4y ago
  Ageism here is unwarranted. I'd assume there are now more 40something years olds keeping the traditional hacker values (before "hacker" became to mean "dude stealing money from gullible strangers over the internet") than there are 20something years olds. Because they actually might have been the part of that old hacker culture (not sure if it even exists now?). Now even in the best tech schools they'd probably teach you the most important thing on the internet (after the adtech of course) is to make AIs to ban "hate speech" and "misinformation". And if the independent hacker culture still exists, it's certainly not easy to find among the noise.

BobbyJo 4y ago

Privacy is very much enshrined in US law, it's the 4th amendment to our constitution.

rchaud 4y ago
Strange how the NSA can just skate through this. Then again, the US Constitution also says "All men are created equal" and that was a bunch of horseshit for centuries.
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  Laws need people willing to uphold them. It's a good thing when laws are unreasonable, and a bad thing when people are unreasonable.
- tzs 4y ago
  > Then again, the US Constitution also says "All men are created equal" Nope. You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence.
threeseed 4y ago
4th amendment is specifically limited to unreasonable search and seizures. It doesn't mean that you have the right to privacy in any and all situations.

dimensionc132 4y ago

United Nations Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) 1948, Article 12: “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.” International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) 1966, Article 1: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honor or reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

RansomStark 4y ago

> Not a human right The UN disagrees. Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks". [0] You can argue what the right to privacy means and the limitations of that freedom in respect of non-arbitrary interference are acceptable, but to claim privacy is not a human right is simply incorrect. [0] https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...

amanaplanacanal 4y ago
Does the UN declaration have the force of law anywhere? Or is is more of a "we wish it worked like this" document?
- estebank 4y ago
  > Although not legally binding, the contents of the UDHR have been elaborated and incorporated into subsequent international treaties, regional human rights instruments, and national constitutions and legal codes. Third paragraph at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human...

biglearner1day 4y ago

> Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. But only if it is in their interest. We don't see other services and platforms sanctioned for facilitating illegal activity. Furthermore, the Data Protection Directive does give users the (human!) right to privacy, considering that crypto isn't a currency, it's merely your private data which is also protected by GDPR.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jjulius 4y ago
>We don't see other services and platforms sanctioned for facilitating illegal activity. ... yes we do, lol. You hear about people being arrested and platforms shut down for facilitating financial crimes in the crypto space all the time.
andsoitis 4y ago
> We don't see other services and platforms sanctioned for facilitating illegal activity. How about the various anti-money laundering regulations and agencies around the world, e.g. https://www.fincen.gov/history-anti-money-laundering-laws https://www.fincen.gov/history-anti-money-laundering-laws How about the US Dept. of the Treasury's program against Transnational Criminal Organizations, which includes sanctions: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/transnational-criminal-organizations https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...

cjg 4y ago

https://www.coe.int/en/web/impact-convention-human-rights/right-to-privacy https://www.coe.int/en/web/impact-convention-human-rights/ri...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
There is zero law suggesting financial transactions are subject to Article 8 protection.
- duncan_idaho 4y ago
  What about right to own property alone as well as in association with others.