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He wasn’t just developing software, he seems to also been involved with operating the Tornado mixer service, thus enabling / facilitating money laundering and e

He wasn’t just developing software, he seems to also been involved with operating the Tornado mixer service, thus enabling / facilitating money laundering and evasion of sanctions.

yokem55 4y ago
The 'service' is a contract on the chain. It exists and operates because thousands of other people are running nodes that run that chain. It still works today if you access the static front end website via ipfs or have a local clone of it or manually build and submit the transactions via your own local node. So, once deployed, there really isn't anything to 'run' in order for it to continue.
- louwrentius 4y ago
  > thousands of other people are running nodes that run that chain Then thousands of people - including him - enable tax evasion and sanctions. Thank you for providing a good example why all crypto should be banned. And yes you can ban cryptocurrencies by outlawing exchanges.
dylkil 4y ago
tornado cash doesnt facilitate money laundering, it just obfuscates the source of eth, like converting debit into cash, those funds still need to enter the real system in some "legitimate" manner in order to be considered laundered.
- louwrentius 4y ago
  Any kind of mixer is intended to anonymise transactions and that doesn't really have any legitimate, legal use case. Que remarks about 'privacy' in 3,2,1...
  - Eduard 4y ago
    GDPR
  - dylkil 4y ago
    the classic tale of "privacy is only needed to do illegal things"
dannyw 4y ago
Does contributing to an encrypted messaging app, like Signal or Matrix, also mean you're enabling / facilitating child pornography and terrorism? Keep in mind that a cryptocurrency private key is just a bunch of bytes, like this: `KwTHJw865SLeTAjK7otYb5bL5mwutBb2vDxxF7kGf5XvY7QttnvM`
- seanw444 4y ago
  The popular consensus on HN seems to be that the government having absolute monopolistic control and power over personal finance is inarguably good. "But money laundering!" so? "But evading taxes!" so? You can catch people in the act of attempting to commit these crimes if your agents aren't lazy shits. Forcing everyone's transactions to be public and traceable just so it's easy for the government to arrest people is not a good tradeoff.
  - fisf 4y ago
    The consensus on HN regarding crypto, privacy, and free speech has shifted considerably over the years. I have a hard time pinpointing the time, or identifying the reasons, bit the current sentiment towards some of those topics is chilly.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    > Forcing everyone's transactions to be public and traceable My transactions are not public, but that's because I don't use blockchain. This is a problem created by blockchain technologies. Services like Tornado Cash are a poor solution that introduces new problems (like making laundering much easier). Traceability is indeed required for large transactions in most jurisdictions. Where the line for this should be drawn is debatable. I think it would be hard for society where all transactions are fully anonymous to function. It's too easy for bad actors to free-ride or otherwise take advantage of the situation. I would prefer a little more freedom/privacy here but it's definitely a situation with trade-offs in both directions. Also, keep in mind that increasing privacy for financial transactions would disproportionately benefit those with the most money.
  - tzs 4y ago
    > You can catch people in the act of attempting to commit these crimes if your agents aren't lazy shits How?

He wasn’t just developing software, he seems to also been involved with operating the Tornado mixer service, thus enabling / facilitating money laundering and evasion of sanctions.

yokem55 4y ago

The 'service' is a contract on the chain. It exists and operates because thousands of other people are running nodes that run that chain. It still works today if you access the static front end website via ipfs or have a local clone of it or manually build and submit the transactions via your own local node. So, once deployed, there really isn't anything to 'run' in order for it to continue.

louwrentius 4y ago
> thousands of other people are running nodes that run that chain Then thousands of people - including him - enable tax evasion and sanctions. Thank you for providing a good example why all crypto should be banned. And yes you can ban cryptocurrencies by outlawing exchanges.

dylkil 4y ago

tornado cash doesnt facilitate money laundering, it just obfuscates the source of eth, like converting debit into cash, those funds still need to enter the real system in some "legitimate" manner in order to be considered laundered.

louwrentius 4y ago
Any kind of mixer is intended to anonymise transactions and that doesn't really have any legitimate, legal use case. Que remarks about 'privacy' in 3,2,1...
- Eduard 4y ago
  GDPR
- dylkil 4y ago
  the classic tale of "privacy is only needed to do illegal things"

dannyw 4y ago

Does contributing to an encrypted messaging app, like Signal or Matrix, also mean you're enabling / facilitating child pornography and terrorism? Keep in mind that a cryptocurrency private key is just a bunch of bytes, like this: `KwTHJw865SLeTAjK7otYb5bL5mwutBb2vDxxF7kGf5XvY7QttnvM`

seanw444 4y ago
The popular consensus on HN seems to be that the government having absolute monopolistic control and power over personal finance is inarguably good. "But money laundering!" so? "But evading taxes!" so? You can catch people in the act of attempting to commit these crimes if your agents aren't lazy shits. Forcing everyone's transactions to be public and traceable just so it's easy for the government to arrest people is not a good tradeoff.
- fisf 4y ago
  The consensus on HN regarding crypto, privacy, and free speech has shifted considerably over the years. I have a hard time pinpointing the time, or identifying the reasons, bit the current sentiment towards some of those topics is chilly.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Forcing everyone's transactions to be public and traceable My transactions are not public, but that's because I don't use blockchain. This is a problem created by blockchain technologies. Services like Tornado Cash are a poor solution that introduces new problems (like making laundering much easier). Traceability is indeed required for large transactions in most jurisdictions. Where the line for this should be drawn is debatable. I think it would be hard for society where all transactions are fully anonymous to function. It's too easy for bad actors to free-ride or otherwise take advantage of the situation. I would prefer a little more freedom/privacy here but it's definitely a situation with trade-offs in both directions. Also, keep in mind that increasing privacy for financial transactions would disproportionately benefit those with the most money.
- tzs 4y ago
  > You can catch people in the act of attempting to commit these crimes if your agents aren't lazy shits How?