4 ms·

This reminds me of multiplayer video games and to a lesser extent board games. What I really enjoy doing is exploring different elements of the game, map, char

This reminds me of multiplayer video games and to a lesser extent board games. What I really enjoy doing is exploring different elements of the game, map, characters, mechanics. But lots of games have been “solved” and playing with certain people is just minor variations on an optimal path.

mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
There is a feedback loop that game studios put in to these always online games to make players believe that grinding content over and over to get some gear with better stats will make them better. Gamers test the better gear and create spreadsheets of DPS (damage per second) numbers per weapon, optimal loadouts, etc. to prove via math that they are right. A while back in Destiny there was some sniper that required getting PvP kills with it in order to get an upgrade (or something like that). I suck at PvP but was able to do it and you know what - I got decent at sniping in PvP simply because I kept doing it over and over and over. I believe its the grinding of the content that makes the player better. Those pro gamers that play 8-12 hours per day are really good. A lot of people would be really good at some of these games if they put that time in. The changed stats on gear is an illusion to keep players engaged (not a fake illusion but I think a facade with marginal difference).
MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
Any RPG like game where if you aren't following one of a few optimal character builds, you're "doing it wrong".
CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
Chess can get like this to an extreme extent. Sometimes when playing chess with friends I'll make an obviously un-optimal move because it has a chance at putting the game in a weird situation. Just something _different_ for a change is much more fun/interesting than playing the same boring lines out. This is an interesting post to read through: https://www.ichess.net/blog/why-has-professional-chess-scene-so-many-draws-in-recent-years/ https://www.ichess.net/blog/why-has-professional-chess-scene...
- bmurphy1976 4y ago
  I play a lot of online poker. Sometimes I'll start betting increased amounts (3 to 5x big blind) on the initial deal regardless of the quality of my hand to force more money to get into play. I just want to increase the stakes a bit because it makes the game more enjoyable than everyone always betting the optimal and predictable amount. It's amazing how often this significantly upsets other players. It's not real money (or even significant if they went bankrupt and couldn't wait 24 hours to get the next handout) at the tables I plan (small amounts). I've seen serious meltdowns over pennies.
  - treis 4y ago
    Because people want to play a game of skill and not luck. Your random bets gave an advantage to whoever had a good hand then. Which is not what people want when they play poker. Long ago I played in cheap & FTP tourneys. Multiple people would go all in on the first hand or relatively soon. Whoever 3-4xed their chips in the first few hands had an enormous advantage for the rest of the game. It was the single largest reason I stopped playing.
    - bmurphy1976 4y ago
      I know the all-in strategy, and that is a very different thing. Yeah it can be frustrating but those people also tend to go broke really quick. You don't have to play their game and you always have the option to go to a different table. I want to clarify, my bets were not random and they are not even close to the order of magnitude as the all-in bets. Poker isn't just "mathematical purity" it's also psychology and that's part of the skill. A player losing their cool because I kept throwing 30 into the pot instead of 10 when we all have 1000 on hand is losing the psychology game big time.
    - FalconSensei 4y ago
      > Because people want to play a game of skill and not luck Any game that involves dice or random cards has at least some luck involved.

mattbrewsbytes 4y ago

There is a feedback loop that game studios put in to these always online games to make players believe that grinding content over and over to get some gear with better stats will make them better. Gamers test the better gear and create spreadsheets of DPS (damage per second) numbers per weapon, optimal loadouts, etc. to prove via math that they are right. A while back in Destiny there was some sniper that required getting PvP kills with it in order to get an upgrade (or something like that). I suck at PvP but was able to do it and you know what - I got decent at sniping in PvP simply because I kept doing it over and over and over. I believe its the grinding of the content that makes the player better. Those pro gamers that play 8-12 hours per day are really good. A lot of people would be really good at some of these games if they put that time in. The changed stats on gear is an illusion to keep players engaged (not a fake illusion but I think a facade with marginal difference).

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago

Any RPG like game where if you aren't following one of a few optimal character builds, you're "doing it wrong".

CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago

Chess can get like this to an extreme extent. Sometimes when playing chess with friends I'll make an obviously un-optimal move because it has a chance at putting the game in a weird situation. Just something _different_ for a change is much more fun/interesting than playing the same boring lines out. This is an interesting post to read through: https://www.ichess.net/blog/why-has-professional-chess-scene-so-many-draws-in-recent-years/ https://www.ichess.net/blog/why-has-professional-chess-scene...

bmurphy1976 4y ago
I play a lot of online poker. Sometimes I'll start betting increased amounts (3 to 5x big blind) on the initial deal regardless of the quality of my hand to force more money to get into play. I just want to increase the stakes a bit because it makes the game more enjoyable than everyone always betting the optimal and predictable amount. It's amazing how often this significantly upsets other players. It's not real money (or even significant if they went bankrupt and couldn't wait 24 hours to get the next handout) at the tables I plan (small amounts). I've seen serious meltdowns over pennies.
- treis 4y ago
  Because people want to play a game of skill and not luck. Your random bets gave an advantage to whoever had a good hand then. Which is not what people want when they play poker. Long ago I played in cheap & FTP tourneys. Multiple people would go all in on the first hand or relatively soon. Whoever 3-4xed their chips in the first few hands had an enormous advantage for the rest of the game. It was the single largest reason I stopped playing.
  - bmurphy1976 4y ago
    I know the all-in strategy, and that is a very different thing. Yeah it can be frustrating but those people also tend to go broke really quick. You don't have to play their game and you always have the option to go to a different table. I want to clarify, my bets were not random and they are not even close to the order of magnitude as the all-in bets. Poker isn't just "mathematical purity" it's also psychology and that's part of the skill. A player losing their cool because I kept throwing 30 into the pot instead of 10 when we all have 1000 on hand is losing the psychology game big time.
  - FalconSensei 4y ago
    > Because people want to play a game of skill and not luck Any game that involves dice or random cards has at least some luck involved.