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The problem is not the blockchain, but the cryptocurrency with it's harmful consent-mechanism, also all the scams happening with it. These are two different tec

The problem is not the blockchain, but the cryptocurrency with it's harmful consent-mechanism, also all the scams happening with it. These are two different technologies. And only one of them is highly problematic.

devoutsalsa 4y ago
Crypto scams aren't a problem unique to crypto. There are plenty of fiat scams, too.
- PurpleRamen 4y ago
  There is a big difference between nearly 100% scam, and something like 1% scam. And most of the scames happening with non-crypto are not exclusive to the currency, they would happen with crypto too, if it had wider usage.
  - Ferret7446 4y ago
    The spam email and phone calls I get are nearly 100% scam.
tpae 4y ago
Scams are everywhere, though. Millions are scammed through shitty toolbars, and personal data is brokered to the highest bidders. Cryptocurrency has issues, but generalizing it as the problem isn't necessarily constructive to society.
- PurpleRamen 4y ago
  Then where are the legit cryptocurrency use cases? At the moment it seems, except people playing around for the sake of playing, every other usage is just scamming the fools or scamming the state. And while other cases were tested, they failed.
  - dashdot 4y ago
    Managing (digital) assets/values in a permissionless, self-sovereign way. There is no alternative as far as I know.
    - abalashov 4y ago
      In a self-contained fantasy economy with no attachment points to the real world, this might be compelling. In practice, the rest of the economy, society, etc. doesn't operate in a self-sovereign way, and neither do you. It's not much different than the problem of micronations[1]. Exciting as they are for D&Ders of a sort, they aren't real nations for the simple reason that they lack a defining feature of a nation (among others): that everyone else think they're a nation. Cryptocurrency is perhaps not as extreme; a reasonably large number of people appear to be persuaded that units of cryptocurrency are a real asset, and some begrudging convertibility into other kinds of assets (a defining feature of a currency) does exist. Still, it suffers from a similar problem, in kind if not in degree. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation
      - tpae 4y ago
        Same can be said about your local classroom, universities, and even companies. There's different types of currencies (whether it's your grades or performance reviews), cryptocurrency is no different than the value that is exchanged between two members of the community. Let's not assume that it's going to be the end-all and be-all, because it's not. It's a medium of exchange between members of a community (BTC, ETH, Doge, or whatever). The common misconception that "oh crypto is such a scam" type of group is that they assume this is designed to replace something else. It's not a replacement of any kind, it's a tool for a medium of exchange between communities.
      - heywoodlh 4y ago
        > In practice This is the difficult part for me with Cryptocurrency. Sure, the idea is cool, but I can't really use crypto with any of the services I use except for maybe my VPS provider or other technical services (which requires me to provide an email address anyway). I'd love to hear about mainstream services allowing financial transactions through cryptocurrency. Pornhub is the only mainstream/non-tech service I can think of. The only practical use for me with cryptocurrency would be to convert it back into USD eventually.
ricochet11 4y ago
85% of email is spam[1], but the remaining 15% is really useful and helps run the world. same in everything: probably 85% of songs i don't like, 10% i'll listen to, 5% is amazing. 85% of crypto is nonsense, 10% is interesting, 5% transformative. i find it a useful mental model to not be annoyed at everything i encounter. if theres tons of people saying taylor swift is great theres probably one song im gonna like. apply it to crypto too. [1] https://donotpay.com/learn/spam-accounts-for-approximately-percent-of-all-email/ https://donotpay.com/learn/spam-accounts-for-approximately-p...
- knorker 4y ago
  There's 20'000 cryptocurrencies, and zero actual use cases outside of crimes like tax evasion, money laundering, and buying illegal things. So your percentages are a bit off, and should be more like 0. I wouldn't even classify buying illegal drugs on the internet, which is the most moral of all cryptocurrency use cases, as "transformative".
- Communitivity 4y ago
  I think those are great examples of the Pareto Principle [1]. It says 80% of the results come from 20% of the causes. Your examples could be generalized to an extension principle: 30% of the consequences come from 15% of the causes, and 50% come from a separate 5% of the causes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
  - ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
    They are applying Sturgeon's law [1] ("ninety-percent of everything is crud"), not Pareto, common misconception. Pareto would be that 80% of all crypto transactions are done by 20% of all the cryptocurrencies (given 10,953 active cryptos, that would be 2,190), which also doesn't stand since ~99% of all crypto transactions are done by the top 10 cryptos (BTC, ETH, etc.), textbook oligopoly [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law [2] https://coinmarketcap.com/charts https://coinmarketcap.com/charts https://www.statista.com/statistics/1269302/crypto-market-share https://www.statista.com/statistics/1269302/crypto-market-sh...

devoutsalsa 4y ago

Crypto scams aren't a problem unique to crypto. There are plenty of fiat scams, too.

PurpleRamen 4y ago
There is a big difference between nearly 100% scam, and something like 1% scam. And most of the scames happening with non-crypto are not exclusive to the currency, they would happen with crypto too, if it had wider usage.
- Ferret7446 4y ago
  The spam email and phone calls I get are nearly 100% scam.

tpae 4y ago

Scams are everywhere, though. Millions are scammed through shitty toolbars, and personal data is brokered to the highest bidders. Cryptocurrency has issues, but generalizing it as the problem isn't necessarily constructive to society.

PurpleRamen 4y ago
Then where are the legit cryptocurrency use cases? At the moment it seems, except people playing around for the sake of playing, every other usage is just scamming the fools or scamming the state. And while other cases were tested, they failed.
- dashdot 4y ago
  Managing (digital) assets/values in a permissionless, self-sovereign way. There is no alternative as far as I know.
  - abalashov 4y ago
    In a self-contained fantasy economy with no attachment points to the real world, this might be compelling. In practice, the rest of the economy, society, etc. doesn't operate in a self-sovereign way, and neither do you. It's not much different than the problem of micronations[1]. Exciting as they are for D&Ders of a sort, they aren't real nations for the simple reason that they lack a defining feature of a nation (among others): that everyone else think they're a nation. Cryptocurrency is perhaps not as extreme; a reasonably large number of people appear to be persuaded that units of cryptocurrency are a real asset, and some begrudging convertibility into other kinds of assets (a defining feature of a currency) does exist. Still, it suffers from a similar problem, in kind if not in degree. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation
    - tpae 4y ago
      Same can be said about your local classroom, universities, and even companies. There's different types of currencies (whether it's your grades or performance reviews), cryptocurrency is no different than the value that is exchanged between two members of the community. Let's not assume that it's going to be the end-all and be-all, because it's not. It's a medium of exchange between members of a community (BTC, ETH, Doge, or whatever). The common misconception that "oh crypto is such a scam" type of group is that they assume this is designed to replace something else. It's not a replacement of any kind, it's a tool for a medium of exchange between communities.
    - heywoodlh 4y ago
      > In practice This is the difficult part for me with Cryptocurrency. Sure, the idea is cool, but I can't really use crypto with any of the services I use except for maybe my VPS provider or other technical services (which requires me to provide an email address anyway). I'd love to hear about mainstream services allowing financial transactions through cryptocurrency. Pornhub is the only mainstream/non-tech service I can think of. The only practical use for me with cryptocurrency would be to convert it back into USD eventually.

ricochet11 4y ago

85% of email is spam[1], but the remaining 15% is really useful and helps run the world. same in everything: probably 85% of songs i don't like, 10% i'll listen to, 5% is amazing. 85% of crypto is nonsense, 10% is interesting, 5% transformative. i find it a useful mental model to not be annoyed at everything i encounter. if theres tons of people saying taylor swift is great theres probably one song im gonna like. apply it to crypto too. [1] https://donotpay.com/learn/spam-accounts-for-approximately-percent-of-all-email/ https://donotpay.com/learn/spam-accounts-for-approximately-p...

knorker 4y ago
There's 20'000 cryptocurrencies, and zero actual use cases outside of crimes like tax evasion, money laundering, and buying illegal things. So your percentages are a bit off, and should be more like 0. I wouldn't even classify buying illegal drugs on the internet, which is the most moral of all cryptocurrency use cases, as "transformative".
Communitivity 4y ago
I think those are great examples of the Pareto Principle [1]. It says 80% of the results come from 20% of the causes. Your examples could be generalized to an extension principle: 30% of the consequences come from 15% of the causes, and 50% come from a separate 5% of the causes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
- ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
  They are applying Sturgeon's law [1] ("ninety-percent of everything is crud"), not Pareto, common misconception. Pareto would be that 80% of all crypto transactions are done by 20% of all the cryptocurrencies (given 10,953 active cryptos, that would be 2,190), which also doesn't stand since ~99% of all crypto transactions are done by the top 10 cryptos (BTC, ETH, etc.), textbook oligopoly [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law [2] https://coinmarketcap.com/charts https://coinmarketcap.com/charts https://www.statista.com/statistics/1269302/crypto-market-share https://www.statista.com/statistics/1269302/crypto-market-sh...