4 ms·

First of all that "freedom" is a US constitutional thing, not defined anywhere else as such so maybe some expectations should be tuned down a bit. Secondly not

by soco 4y ago

First of all that "freedom" is a US constitutional thing, not defined anywhere else as such so maybe some expectations should be tuned down a bit. Secondly not even in the states does freedom of expression equate "freedom to do whatever and wherever I want" - try yelling nasty things at a biker gang and see where that gets you. But you know what is defined pretty much everywhere else? The right of property - which includes the right to ban from it whoever you feel like, without bothering even to give an explanation.

bawolff 4y ago
> try yelling nasty things at a biker gang and see where that gets you I mean,maybe they beat you up, but then they go to jail and you get a bunch of money as compensation, so i don't think this supports your point. > The right of property - which includes the right to ban from it whoever you feel like, without bothering even to give an explanation. That's generally not true. Try banning <insert specific race here> and see what that gets you. However banning obnoxious photographers from your commercial business is of course reasonable.
- drugstorecowboy 4y ago
  > That's generally not true. Try banning <insert specific race here> and see what that gets you. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US you are free to ban any race you like from your private residence for any reason or no reason, with or without explanation. A business has different rules but its not entirely "private" in the eyes of the law. Also I don't know where you live but were I to insult a biker gang and get beat up in the US, I would not be expecting to be compensated outside of very unusual circumstances ( the "biker gang" is composed of dentists and doctors ) you simply aren't going to be compensated by anyone for something like that aside from your own private insurance (maybe). Even if you sued this biker gang and won, collecting it would be difficult, the justice system might include restitution of some sort in the sentence but it certainly wouldn't be "a bunch of money".
  - samatman 4y ago
    Could you explain the root of this notion that the limits of a legal right are determined by the willingness of criminals to assault you for practicing it? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    - selectodude 4y ago
      You can lodge a civil suit but generally broke people who are in jail are pretty judgement proof.
      - watwut 4y ago
        Biker gang is not broke by definition. The debts are expected to be paid after you leave the jail, with interests sometimes and you can collect on them. It can create endless circle of issues for formerly incarcerated people. That being said, this sounds more like "disordered violence police is unwilling or unable to control" then anything to do with legality or justice. I can steal from your wallet, not be caught and it will amount to the same thing.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    > I can't speak for other countries, but in the US you are free to ban any race you like from your private residence for any reason or no reason, with or without explanation. A business has different rules but its not entirely "private" in the eyes of the law. Sure, but tourist sites aren't private homes. Afaik, the tiktokers aren't breaking into private homes to film you sleeping.
watwut 4y ago
I did not mentioned US constitution at all. The concept of "freedom" does exists all around the world. In various forms and with various limitations, but USA does not have monopoly on that concept. In particular, the expression "freedom of expression" was used by non-Americans in the article - and they did not referred to American constitution. They would probably be puzzled by why you are bringing it up at all. > But you know what is defined pretty much everywhere else? The right of property - which includes the right to ban from it whoever you feel like, without bothering even to give an explanation. Also, this is actually incorrect both for around the world and for USA. USA has protected groups and you can not arbitrary ban them. Beyond that, this limit is afaik not based on individual property rights. > try yelling nasty things at a biker gang and see where that gets you This is not applicable here. The biker gang does not have legal right to do anything about you hurting their feelings. They may become aggressive and violent, but are you sure you want to put equivalence between violent gang and Nepal authorities in this context? Cause I surely dont think the situation is the same.

by soco 4y ago

bawolff 4y ago

> try yelling nasty things at a biker gang and see where that gets you I mean,maybe they beat you up, but then they go to jail and you get a bunch of money as compensation, so i don't think this supports your point. > The right of property - which includes the right to ban from it whoever you feel like, without bothering even to give an explanation. That's generally not true. Try banning <insert specific race here> and see what that gets you. However banning obnoxious photographers from your commercial business is of course reasonable.

drugstorecowboy 4y ago
> That's generally not true. Try banning <insert specific race here> and see what that gets you. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US you are free to ban any race you like from your private residence for any reason or no reason, with or without explanation. A business has different rules but its not entirely "private" in the eyes of the law. Also I don't know where you live but were I to insult a biker gang and get beat up in the US, I would not be expecting to be compensated outside of very unusual circumstances ( the "biker gang" is composed of dentists and doctors ) you simply aren't going to be compensated by anyone for something like that aside from your own private insurance (maybe). Even if you sued this biker gang and won, collecting it would be difficult, the justice system might include restitution of some sort in the sentence but it certainly wouldn't be "a bunch of money".
- samatman 4y ago
  Could you explain the root of this notion that the limits of a legal right are determined by the willingness of criminals to assault you for practicing it? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
  - selectodude 4y ago
    You can lodge a civil suit but generally broke people who are in jail are pretty judgement proof.
    - watwut 4y ago
      Biker gang is not broke by definition. The debts are expected to be paid after you leave the jail, with interests sometimes and you can collect on them. It can create endless circle of issues for formerly incarcerated people. That being said, this sounds more like "disordered violence police is unwilling or unable to control" then anything to do with legality or justice. I can steal from your wallet, not be caught and it will amount to the same thing.
- bawolff 4y ago
  > I can't speak for other countries, but in the US you are free to ban any race you like from your private residence for any reason or no reason, with or without explanation. A business has different rules but its not entirely "private" in the eyes of the law. Sure, but tourist sites aren't private homes. Afaik, the tiktokers aren't breaking into private homes to film you sleeping.

watwut 4y ago

I did not mentioned US constitution at all. The concept of "freedom" does exists all around the world. In various forms and with various limitations, but USA does not have monopoly on that concept. In particular, the expression "freedom of expression" was used by non-Americans in the article - and they did not referred to American constitution. They would probably be puzzled by why you are bringing it up at all. > But you know what is defined pretty much everywhere else? The right of property - which includes the right to ban from it whoever you feel like, without bothering even to give an explanation. Also, this is actually incorrect both for around the world and for USA. USA has protected groups and you can not arbitrary ban them. Beyond that, this limit is afaik not based on individual property rights. > try yelling nasty things at a biker gang and see where that gets you This is not applicable here. The biker gang does not have legal right to do anything about you hurting their feelings. They may become aggressive and violent, but are you sure you want to put equivalence between violent gang and Nepal authorities in this context? Cause I surely dont think the situation is the same.