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Slight deviation but I'm seeing a telling pattern among my friends which is that after making the jump to a Macbook two or three years ago because of their grea

Slight deviation but I'm seeing a telling pattern among my friends which is that after making the jump to a Macbook two or three years ago because of their great experience with the iPod they've now reached the time when it starts needing new parts. Because the batteries and hard drives are so crazily expensive I see them making the decision that it's cheaper to buy a new PC (possibly even a nice light netbook) then replace the battery / hard drive on their Apple. Before they'd made the jump I'd encourage them to switch because they hadn't yet "experienced" Apple. Now that they're making an informed decision I can't argue with their reasoning for switching back. Apple's upfront premium pricing is defensible and sensible but their aftersales costs are doing everyone including them a lot of damage.

steverb 15y ago
Well, to be fair, replacement batteries for Dells are crazy expensive too. When the batteries in my wife's laptop start going bad (which they inevitably do because of her usage pattern) she usually just limps along until we can buy a new machine and hand the old one down.
- underwater 15y ago
  You can buy generic replacement batteries for about a third of the price.
  - smackfu 15y ago
    Which is important since you can replace the battery yourself in a Dell, as opposed to trying to get Apple to install a generic replacement for you.
    - aiscott 15y ago
      Batteries are pretty easy to replace in newer (last few years) macs. ifixit.com has really good guides for digging around inside your mac. This (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-13-Inch-Unibody-Mid-2009-Battery/1332/ http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-13-Inch-U...) guide is for my mac from 2009, as an example.
  - asmosoinio 15y ago
    Bought such for a MacBook from dealextreme.com, and was REALLY disappointed -- the battery lasts about an hour or hour and a half. The original used to last about 4 hours.
    - lysol 15y ago
      Non-OEM batteries are a mistake 90% of the time. The quality is just not good. For something that can start on fire, I'm willing to spend the extra 30 bucks to know it's a good battery.
      - asmosoinio 15y ago
        Happend to have any sources for this, tests or something? 150 € for a battery just seems wrong, however 40€ for a lousy one is not too cool either.
adamio 15y ago
What are the new parts this Macbook is requiring? Batteries will need to be replaced and Apple's prices are around market for these. What specific aftersales costs are you referring to?
- petenixey 15y ago
  Generally it's batteries and hard drives with occasional RAM upgrades too. None of these people have the knowledge or confidence to change these themselves so they see the Apple store as the only option. This of course only multiplies parts and labour costs.
  - adestefan 15y ago
    Which is a real shame because the unibody systems are one of the easiest laptops to open up and get to the HD and RAM. It's even documented in the Getting Started guide that comes with the system. Now if they'd just let us change that big ol' battery that's sitting right there it would be a dream.
    - natesm 15y ago
      Well, you can take the battery out. I've taken mine out multiple times: once to dry out my computer, and again to replace the top case after drying out my computer failed to make the keyboard work again. There's actually very little about a MBP that is difficult to take apart. The part where you have to remove the screen isn't even that hard.
      - jonhendry 15y ago
        "There's actually very little about a MBP that is difficult to take apart." They're never hard to take apart. It's putting them back together that is the hard part. ;^)
        ugh 15y ago
        Haha. Very funny. The last MacBook Pro that was hard to take apart and put together again was sold in 2008. I have one from 2007 and it was pretty easy to replace the (non-defective but slow) HDD with an SSD. That’s, as I said, a MacBook Pro that still had the hard to replace HDD. The newer ones make the process much easier. I’m very annoyed that the battery in newer MacBook Pros isn’t user replaceable. It’s not that the battery is hard to access and replace – certainly no harder than the HDD. I’m guessing there is some sort of legal requirement – probably? Maybe batteries have to be sold with a hard shell, the MacBook Pro battery doesn’t have that in order to save space. Since they can’t sell it on its own (only as part of the device) they can’t make it user-replaceable. At least it’s priced appropriately (relatively): The replacement will cost you €180 (parts and work), that’s not all that much more compared to the old user-replaceable batteries which cost €140. But yeah, except for the battery the MacBook Pros are very accessible.
andrewcooke 15y ago
fans are what i have had to replace on each macbook my partner has owned. that and power cables fraying (they do not replace those for free in chile, so we've been through one expensive power brick after another...). by the way, for power cables, i have, finally, found a solution: use silicone sealant (the stuff you use around the bath) to make a cable strain relief. it doesn't look that great, but it works. splodge sealant on the cable where it leaves the plug and smooth it out along the cable. the sealant should join the end of the plug and taper out over a few inches of cable.
- calloc 15y ago
  When you coil up the power cord, make a little loop then wrap it around the poles rather than pulling tight and around the poles. This helps with strain relief and helps the power adapter stay perfectly in shape longer. I've had my MacBook Pro for 5 years now, same power adapter, haven't had to replace it yet.
gravitronic 15y ago
My theory is that you are going to need a new laptop every five years, minimum. If you choose the Apple experience (or a high-class PC laptop for that matter), that will be at least $1000/five years. If you choose a Gateway laptop that will be $400/five years. From mine and my friend's experiences I would not say that a more expensive laptop will last longer than a cheaper laptop. Most of my friends who are Apple users have had their laptops replaced at least once due to hardware failure. They had AppleCare and usually ended up with a new laptop for free. After seeing their rate of replacement I would never own an Apple laptop without AppleCare because the difference between being stuck with a brick and having Apple replace it with a newer model free of charge is worth the money.
- dextorious 15y ago
  """"After seeing their rate of replacement I would never own an Apple laptop without AppleCare because the difference between being stuck with a brick and having Apple replace it with a newer model free of charge is worth the money."""" Yeah, but for me the difference between not having to use a PC is worth even more money. If you're casual about computing, buy whatever, but if you are professional buy what fits your work needs best, be it Mac or PC, not what is cheaper. If $1000 or $2000 / 5 years seem a lot to you as a professional, then you are in the wrong business.
  - code_duck 15y ago
    By 'PC', do you mean Windows?
    - eloisius 15y ago
      Probably also referring to the inferior quality hardware in most PC laptops.
      - Legion 15y ago
        This. For me, the comparison is never between a $1000 Apple laptop and a $400 Gateway one. The comparison is between a $1000 Apple laptop and an $800-$1000 Lenovo T-series or X-series Thinkpad (or, as I call them, the "real" Thinkpads). For something that I use for hours every single day, an overly-heavy and shoddily built piece of junk is not an acceptable option. Apple isn't the only manufacturer that makes quality hardware, but the quality non-Apple machines cost much closer to the Apples than the junky Gateway does.
jonhendry 15y ago
Hard drives? Any laptop hard drive will do. I put a 500GB Seagate hybrid drive in my 2010 Macbook Pro. The installation is much easier on the plastic MacBooks of recent years, where the hard drive is accessible through the battery compartment. If they're using MacBook Airs the disks are expensive because they're flash, not because of Apple.
rhizome 15y ago
Apple's upfront premium pricing Uh, not so much anymore.
- Macha 15y ago
  I'm going to pick Apple's cheapest laptop with a non-Intel graphics card here for comparison, as I do like to play games and modern Intel cards still seem to suck. Apple: http://www.apple.com/ie/macbookpro/specs-compare.html http://www.apple.com/ie/macbookpro/specs-compare.html €1800 Asus: http://komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_02PC/02_NOTEBOO/21_15/productdetails/80003463/Asus_15_6_N55SF_S1194V_i7_2670_8_750GB/90N5FC2D9H4E13VL133U/default.aspx http://komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_02PC/02_NOTEBOO/21_1... - €900 Not entirely comparable, the mbp has a potientially better graphics card (its definitely faster, but having a quarter of the graphics RAM does limit its future proofing), the asus has a higher resolution screen, more RAM, more storage space etc. On balance, they probably balance out technically. This is pretty clear premium pricing. Whether you consider it worth the premium or not is another matter. As to the usual claim that this is because Apple products are better built and more durable, Apple are big on planned obselence, so let's say that mbp has a 5 year lifespan. It'll work for five years, probably, but you will want to replace it then. The Asus is more likely to fail before its obselete, but by the wonders of consumer protection law (n/a for US people, unfortunately), the minimum time before hardware failure forces you to buy a new one is two years. Put your €900 you saved in the bank and buy another one in when it fails (which more realistically is in 3-4 years). It'll be much better than either of these laptops are now.
- Macha 15y ago
  Double post, please ignore.

steverb 15y ago

Well, to be fair, replacement batteries for Dells are crazy expensive too. When the batteries in my wife's laptop start going bad (which they inevitably do because of her usage pattern) she usually just limps along until we can buy a new machine and hand the old one down.

underwater 15y ago
You can buy generic replacement batteries for about a third of the price.
- smackfu 15y ago
  Which is important since you can replace the battery yourself in a Dell, as opposed to trying to get Apple to install a generic replacement for you.
  - aiscott 15y ago
    Batteries are pretty easy to replace in newer (last few years) macs. ifixit.com has really good guides for digging around inside your mac. This (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-13-Inch-Unibody-Mid-2009-Battery/1332/ http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-13-Inch-U...) guide is for my mac from 2009, as an example.
- asmosoinio 15y ago
  Bought such for a MacBook from dealextreme.com, and was REALLY disappointed -- the battery lasts about an hour or hour and a half. The original used to last about 4 hours.
  - lysol 15y ago
    Non-OEM batteries are a mistake 90% of the time. The quality is just not good. For something that can start on fire, I'm willing to spend the extra 30 bucks to know it's a good battery.
    - asmosoinio 15y ago
      Happend to have any sources for this, tests or something? 150 € for a battery just seems wrong, however 40€ for a lousy one is not too cool either.

adamio 15y ago

What are the new parts this Macbook is requiring? Batteries will need to be replaced and Apple's prices are around market for these. What specific aftersales costs are you referring to?

petenixey 15y ago
Generally it's batteries and hard drives with occasional RAM upgrades too. None of these people have the knowledge or confidence to change these themselves so they see the Apple store as the only option. This of course only multiplies parts and labour costs.
- adestefan 15y ago
  Which is a real shame because the unibody systems are one of the easiest laptops to open up and get to the HD and RAM. It's even documented in the Getting Started guide that comes with the system. Now if they'd just let us change that big ol' battery that's sitting right there it would be a dream.
  - natesm 15y ago
    Well, you can take the battery out. I've taken mine out multiple times: once to dry out my computer, and again to replace the top case after drying out my computer failed to make the keyboard work again. There's actually very little about a MBP that is difficult to take apart. The part where you have to remove the screen isn't even that hard.
    - jonhendry 15y ago
      "There's actually very little about a MBP that is difficult to take apart." They're never hard to take apart. It's putting them back together that is the hard part. ;^)
      - ugh 15y ago
        Haha. Very funny. The last MacBook Pro that was hard to take apart and put together again was sold in 2008. I have one from 2007 and it was pretty easy to replace the (non-defective but slow) HDD with an SSD. That’s, as I said, a MacBook Pro that still had the hard to replace HDD. The newer ones make the process much easier. I’m very annoyed that the battery in newer MacBook Pros isn’t user replaceable. It’s not that the battery is hard to access and replace – certainly no harder than the HDD. I’m guessing there is some sort of legal requirement – probably? Maybe batteries have to be sold with a hard shell, the MacBook Pro battery doesn’t have that in order to save space. Since they can’t sell it on its own (only as part of the device) they can’t make it user-replaceable. At least it’s priced appropriately (relatively): The replacement will cost you €180 (parts and work), that’s not all that much more compared to the old user-replaceable batteries which cost €140. But yeah, except for the battery the MacBook Pros are very accessible.

andrewcooke 15y ago

fans are what i have had to replace on each macbook my partner has owned. that and power cables fraying (they do not replace those for free in chile, so we've been through one expensive power brick after another...). by the way, for power cables, i have, finally, found a solution: use silicone sealant (the stuff you use around the bath) to make a cable strain relief. it doesn't look that great, but it works. splodge sealant on the cable where it leaves the plug and smooth it out along the cable. the sealant should join the end of the plug and taper out over a few inches of cable.

calloc 15y ago
When you coil up the power cord, make a little loop then wrap it around the poles rather than pulling tight and around the poles. This helps with strain relief and helps the power adapter stay perfectly in shape longer. I've had my MacBook Pro for 5 years now, same power adapter, haven't had to replace it yet.

gravitronic 15y ago

My theory is that you are going to need a new laptop every five years, minimum. If you choose the Apple experience (or a high-class PC laptop for that matter), that will be at least $1000/five years. If you choose a Gateway laptop that will be $400/five years. From mine and my friend's experiences I would not say that a more expensive laptop will last longer than a cheaper laptop. Most of my friends who are Apple users have had their laptops replaced at least once due to hardware failure. They had AppleCare and usually ended up with a new laptop for free. After seeing their rate of replacement I would never own an Apple laptop without AppleCare because the difference between being stuck with a brick and having Apple replace it with a newer model free of charge is worth the money.

dextorious 15y ago
""""After seeing their rate of replacement I would never own an Apple laptop without AppleCare because the difference between being stuck with a brick and having Apple replace it with a newer model free of charge is worth the money."""" Yeah, but for me the difference between not having to use a PC is worth even more money. If you're casual about computing, buy whatever, but if you are professional buy what fits your work needs best, be it Mac or PC, not what is cheaper. If $1000 or $2000 / 5 years seem a lot to you as a professional, then you are in the wrong business.
- code_duck 15y ago
  By 'PC', do you mean Windows?
  - eloisius 15y ago
    Probably also referring to the inferior quality hardware in most PC laptops.
    - Legion 15y ago
      This. For me, the comparison is never between a $1000 Apple laptop and a $400 Gateway one. The comparison is between a $1000 Apple laptop and an $800-$1000 Lenovo T-series or X-series Thinkpad (or, as I call them, the "real" Thinkpads). For something that I use for hours every single day, an overly-heavy and shoddily built piece of junk is not an acceptable option. Apple isn't the only manufacturer that makes quality hardware, but the quality non-Apple machines cost much closer to the Apples than the junky Gateway does.

jonhendry 15y ago

Hard drives? Any laptop hard drive will do. I put a 500GB Seagate hybrid drive in my 2010 Macbook Pro. The installation is much easier on the plastic MacBooks of recent years, where the hard drive is accessible through the battery compartment. If they're using MacBook Airs the disks are expensive because they're flash, not because of Apple.

rhizome 15y ago

Apple's upfront premium pricing Uh, not so much anymore.

Macha 15y ago
I'm going to pick Apple's cheapest laptop with a non-Intel graphics card here for comparison, as I do like to play games and modern Intel cards still seem to suck. Apple: http://www.apple.com/ie/macbookpro/specs-compare.html http://www.apple.com/ie/macbookpro/specs-compare.html €1800 Asus: http://komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_02PC/02_NOTEBOO/21_15/productdetails/80003463/Asus_15_6_N55SF_S1194V_i7_2670_8_750GB/90N5FC2D9H4E13VL133U/default.aspx http://komplett.ie/Komplett/product/ZKB_02PC/02_NOTEBOO/21_1... - €900 Not entirely comparable, the mbp has a potientially better graphics card (its definitely faster, but having a quarter of the graphics RAM does limit its future proofing), the asus has a higher resolution screen, more RAM, more storage space etc. On balance, they probably balance out technically. This is pretty clear premium pricing. Whether you consider it worth the premium or not is another matter. As to the usual claim that this is because Apple products are better built and more durable, Apple are big on planned obselence, so let's say that mbp has a 5 year lifespan. It'll work for five years, probably, but you will want to replace it then. The Asus is more likely to fail before its obselete, but by the wonders of consumer protection law (n/a for US people, unfortunately), the minimum time before hardware failure forces you to buy a new one is two years. Put your €900 you saved in the bank and buy another one in when it fails (which more realistically is in 3-4 years). It'll be much better than either of these laptops are now.
Macha 15y ago
Double post, please ignore.