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Since Ubuntu tries to force snap onto (new) users, I do not recommend it for any new user. Sure, you can disable any of that and use flatpak instead, but it see

Since Ubuntu tries to force snap onto (new) users, I do not recommend it for any new user. Sure, you can disable any of that and use flatpak instead, but it seems Canonical doesn't really want that.

simion314 4y ago
Did flatpack improved? Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack because it was not possible and I my quick search found no examples. Personally snap helped me in setting up some stuff on a server (pdftk) I am not a big fan though, could be done better IMO, flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality.
- AnonCoward42 4y ago
  > Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack For new users the CLI stuff is usually less important. I don't categorically hate snap, but for new users it's bad long-term, too, since it is only controlled by Canonical and therefore a bad reliance. Nobody can add repositories for snap beside Canonical. If you are an avid CLI user I recommend using containers instead of snap. This way you can even keep the sandbox with dotnet for example. > flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality. However it is not controlled by RedHat (and also not solely developed by them). At least everyone can add repositories to flatpak. Which is probably my biggest gripe with snap.
  - simion314 4y ago
    About containers- I would prefer say when I go to a CLI project webpage to download 1 file, now it is a snap and it just works so I can test/evaluate the application. I am not intrested in a repository like flatpack just in going directly to the source and getting the file I need. Anyway IMO flatpack and snap are different things, you can't just tell people to replace one with the other. AppImage could have been better but is ahrd to improve if there is no big money behind to force push things.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      Flatpak does not require repositories; you can install flatpak app from an archive, exactly like deb/apt or rpm/dnf. Repositories are a convenience.
      - simion314 4y ago
        I know, I was trying to express that I don't care that snap does not offer support third party repositories. Btw if you or anyone knows, does any of thios tech solves the issue where your system has an old glibc and you want to try some new app/game that needs a new glibc? For a video game performance is important access to GPU driver is needed. I had a bad experience with a game that updated and stopped working and from my reading there is no way to have 2 glibc on your system(complex shit about how executables and libraries loading works).
        vetinari 4y ago
        All container systems are self-contained; they can have glibc (or musl, or any other libc) they want. In flatpak, the glibc is part of the runtimes; i.e. org.(freedesktop|gnome|kde).Platform. This allows you to run apps on old CentOS/RHEL that you could not natively. Or you can have runtime-less package or use your own runtime, where you put libraries you want. Similarly with snap, you have core18 or core20 runtimes (that correspodents to ubuntu 18.04 or ubuntu 20.04). Drivers are more interesting. GPU driver has two parts - kernel mode, that shuffles prepared command buffers between userspace and hardware, does mode switching, etc. -- and user mode, which is shared library that implements user APIs like OpenGL or Vulkan, and based on commands from these APIs builds commands buffers, that are then sent to kernel part. The user-mode part may or may not be compatible with multiple versions of the kernel part; the AMD and Intel drivers usually are, as the kernel driver is part of the kernel tree and the user mode driver has to work with any kernel it is run under. Nvidia on the other hand assumes that both user mode and kernel mode are in sync, so packaging specific user mode driver version into container might be problematic. Flatpak usually ships latest (n or n-1) Mesa and keeps Nvidia driver in sync with the installed kernel mode driver. They are shipped as addons to runtimes.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    CLI is important for everyone. Because when you ask for help to anyone, they will have no clue on how to do it on gnome and will just do it on the CLI.
geokon 4y ago
Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu? Or was that a one-off for Firefox? Debian is a nice snapless alternative bc it'll generally run anything meant for Ubuntu. The only major downside is no PPAs
- cassepipe 4y ago
  Ditched Windows when it was still Windows 8.1 for Linux Mint. I am still on Linux Mint and I have it installed on all my machines. Works out of the box. Not resources hungry. Helpful community on IRC. Good looking if you ask me. It also acts as a good filter against Ubuntu's experiments while benefiting from its widespread adoption. Never looked back.
  - hackerfromthefu 4y ago
    I used to enjoy mint as well, however I heard some bad things about the security or lack of. But the usability and general polish was excellent. Does anyone have up to date knowledge on mint's security situation?
- j1elo 4y ago
  > Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu? It is. https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html#disabled-snap-store-in-linux-mint-20 https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.h...
  - geokon 4y ago
    Seems to be about the precious release. Hope it still holds to their latest release as well

Since Ubuntu tries to force snap onto (new) users, I do not recommend it for any new user. Sure, you can disable any of that and use flatpak instead, but it seems Canonical doesn't really want that.

simion314 4y ago

Did flatpack improved? Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack because it was not possible and I my quick search found no examples. Personally snap helped me in setting up some stuff on a server (pdftk) I am not a big fan though, could be done better IMO, flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality.

AnonCoward42 4y ago
> Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack For new users the CLI stuff is usually less important. I don't categorically hate snap, but for new users it's bad long-term, too, since it is only controlled by Canonical and therefore a bad reliance. Nobody can add repositories for snap beside Canonical. If you are an avid CLI user I recommend using containers instead of snap. This way you can even keep the sandbox with dotnet for example. > flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality. However it is not controlled by RedHat (and also not solely developed by them). At least everyone can add repositories to flatpak. Which is probably my biggest gripe with snap.
- simion314 4y ago
  About containers- I would prefer say when I go to a CLI project webpage to download 1 file, now it is a snap and it just works so I can test/evaluate the application. I am not intrested in a repository like flatpack just in going directly to the source and getting the file I need. Anyway IMO flatpack and snap are different things, you can't just tell people to replace one with the other. AppImage could have been better but is ahrd to improve if there is no big money behind to force push things.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    Flatpak does not require repositories; you can install flatpak app from an archive, exactly like deb/apt or rpm/dnf. Repositories are a convenience.
    - simion314 4y ago
      I know, I was trying to express that I don't care that snap does not offer support third party repositories. Btw if you or anyone knows, does any of thios tech solves the issue where your system has an old glibc and you want to try some new app/game that needs a new glibc? For a video game performance is important access to GPU driver is needed. I had a bad experience with a game that updated and stopped working and from my reading there is no way to have 2 glibc on your system(complex shit about how executables and libraries loading works).
      - vetinari 4y ago
        All container systems are self-contained; they can have glibc (or musl, or any other libc) they want. In flatpak, the glibc is part of the runtimes; i.e. org.(freedesktop|gnome|kde).Platform. This allows you to run apps on old CentOS/RHEL that you could not natively. Or you can have runtime-less package or use your own runtime, where you put libraries you want. Similarly with snap, you have core18 or core20 runtimes (that correspodents to ubuntu 18.04 or ubuntu 20.04). Drivers are more interesting. GPU driver has two parts - kernel mode, that shuffles prepared command buffers between userspace and hardware, does mode switching, etc. -- and user mode, which is shared library that implements user APIs like OpenGL or Vulkan, and based on commands from these APIs builds commands buffers, that are then sent to kernel part. The user-mode part may or may not be compatible with multiple versions of the kernel part; the AMD and Intel drivers usually are, as the kernel driver is part of the kernel tree and the user mode driver has to work with any kernel it is run under. Nvidia on the other hand assumes that both user mode and kernel mode are in sync, so packaging specific user mode driver version into container might be problematic. Flatpak usually ships latest (n or n-1) Mesa and keeps Nvidia driver in sync with the installed kernel mode driver. They are shipped as addons to runtimes.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  CLI is important for everyone. Because when you ask for help to anyone, they will have no clue on how to do it on gnome and will just do it on the CLI.

geokon 4y ago

Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu? Or was that a one-off for Firefox? Debian is a nice snapless alternative bc it'll generally run anything meant for Ubuntu. The only major downside is no PPAs

cassepipe 4y ago
Ditched Windows when it was still Windows 8.1 for Linux Mint. I am still on Linux Mint and I have it installed on all my machines. Works out of the box. Not resources hungry. Helpful community on IRC. Good looking if you ask me. It also acts as a good filter against Ubuntu's experiments while benefiting from its widespread adoption. Never looked back.
- hackerfromthefu 4y ago
  I used to enjoy mint as well, however I heard some bad things about the security or lack of. But the usability and general polish was excellent. Does anyone have up to date knowledge on mint's security situation?
j1elo 4y ago
> Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu? It is. https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html#disabled-snap-store-in-linux-mint-20 https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.h...
- geokon 4y ago
  Seems to be about the precious release. Hope it still holds to their latest release as well