5 ms·

Why would you want a search engine to provide you results from websites/companies that are known liars, that you very likely would never know was propaganda etc

by Teandw 4y ago

Why would you want a search engine to provide you results from websites/companies that are known liars, that you very likely would never know was propaganda etc?

sidibe 4y ago
It's not that I want to visit these sites, it's that I want people to stumble unwittingly to and be convinced by such sites that are on "my side"!
oceanplexian 4y ago
I'll try to answer your question in earnest. "Why would you want a search engine to provide you results from [websites] that are known liars?" Claiming someone is a liar is almost always a gross oversimplification and a form of propaganda in and of itself. Propaganda is partially defined as selectively presenting facts to influence people, which is exactly what you're telling people to do by shutting out opposing viewpoints. If you are going to then say that people are too stupid to discern real from fake information, and therefore need the loving hand of Big Tech to tell them how to think, that's a pretty negative take. Asking Google or DDG if something is misinformation is like asking Monsanto if it's safe to drink Roundup.
- EnKopVand 4y ago
  > If you are going to then say that people are too stupid to discern real from fake information, and therefore need the loving hand of Big Tech to tell them how to think, that's a pretty negative take. The first part of it is pretty busy proving itself true though. Don't get me wrong, I don't think big american tech companies are good curators of this, but previously extinct diseases are showing up again because some people are literally too stupid to vaccinate. There is far too many people who now believe the earth is flat, and so on. So yeah, people are too stupid to discern real from fake information, and why wouldn't they be? If the school system fails to teach you how science works, then you're going to read sources that say vaccines are dangerous and you're going to see doctors who tell you vaccines are dangerous, because vaccines are actually dangerous. The problem with anti-vaxxers (not all of them, some of them think Bill Gates is inside the vaccine and that's just crazy) is that they read the information, but they don't seem to understand the information. Because vaccines are dangerous, but not vaccinating is more dangerous, which is why we vaccinate. This is completely anecdotal, but some of the anti-vaxxers I've talked with even seem to understand the whole vaccine > not-vaccine, but then don't fully seem to grasp the scale of it. They'll go "yeah, I know it's a little selfish but why would I risk my kids to help others?", which is very understandable, but what they don't consider is what happens when everyone thinks like that. Because vaccines aren't just > not-vaccine. That little > is actually on the scale of society breaking bad, but that part of the information doesn't make it through the noise. I don't really think the world wide filter is the solution. I think we should get systems that are better at prosecuting people who wilfully spread harmful information instead. So that it doesn't take 10+ years for people who claim things like the Sandy Hooks parents are actors to face the consequences of their evil. On the flipside, I don't really want worldleadersarelizards.com to be the first results on my search engine either.
- drdeca 4y ago
  > Claiming someone is a liar is almost always a gross oversimplification and a form of propaganda in and of itself. I don't buy this. Seems like fake information to me. Now, to be clear, I do agree that tech companies must not be trusted to make decisions about politics. But the reason for this isn't because there isn't such a thing as a liar. I know you said "almost always", and didn't say "always a gross simplification", but still. There are liars. They are people who tell lies.

by Teandw 4y ago

Why would you want a search engine to provide you results from websites/companies that are known liars, that you very likely would never know was propaganda etc?

sidibe 4y ago

It's not that I want to visit these sites, it's that I want people to stumble unwittingly to and be convinced by such sites that are on "my side"!

oceanplexian 4y ago

I'll try to answer your question in earnest. "Why would you want a search engine to provide you results from [websites] that are known liars?" Claiming someone is a liar is almost always a gross oversimplification and a form of propaganda in and of itself. Propaganda is partially defined as selectively presenting facts to influence people, which is exactly what you're telling people to do by shutting out opposing viewpoints. If you are going to then say that people are too stupid to discern real from fake information, and therefore need the loving hand of Big Tech to tell them how to think, that's a pretty negative take. Asking Google or DDG if something is misinformation is like asking Monsanto if it's safe to drink Roundup.

EnKopVand 4y ago
> If you are going to then say that people are too stupid to discern real from fake information, and therefore need the loving hand of Big Tech to tell them how to think, that's a pretty negative take. The first part of it is pretty busy proving itself true though. Don't get me wrong, I don't think big american tech companies are good curators of this, but previously extinct diseases are showing up again because some people are literally too stupid to vaccinate. There is far too many people who now believe the earth is flat, and so on. So yeah, people are too stupid to discern real from fake information, and why wouldn't they be? If the school system fails to teach you how science works, then you're going to read sources that say vaccines are dangerous and you're going to see doctors who tell you vaccines are dangerous, because vaccines are actually dangerous. The problem with anti-vaxxers (not all of them, some of them think Bill Gates is inside the vaccine and that's just crazy) is that they read the information, but they don't seem to understand the information. Because vaccines are dangerous, but not vaccinating is more dangerous, which is why we vaccinate. This is completely anecdotal, but some of the anti-vaxxers I've talked with even seem to understand the whole vaccine > not-vaccine, but then don't fully seem to grasp the scale of it. They'll go "yeah, I know it's a little selfish but why would I risk my kids to help others?", which is very understandable, but what they don't consider is what happens when everyone thinks like that. Because vaccines aren't just > not-vaccine. That little > is actually on the scale of society breaking bad, but that part of the information doesn't make it through the noise. I don't really think the world wide filter is the solution. I think we should get systems that are better at prosecuting people who wilfully spread harmful information instead. So that it doesn't take 10+ years for people who claim things like the Sandy Hooks parents are actors to face the consequences of their evil. On the flipside, I don't really want worldleadersarelizards.com to be the first results on my search engine either.
drdeca 4y ago
> Claiming someone is a liar is almost always a gross oversimplification and a form of propaganda in and of itself. I don't buy this. Seems like fake information to me. Now, to be clear, I do agree that tech companies must not be trusted to make decisions about politics. But the reason for this isn't because there isn't such a thing as a liar. I know you said "almost always", and didn't say "always a gross simplification", but still. There are liars. They are people who tell lies.