4 ms·

I think you should clarify this, changing the IMEI in most countries is a criminal offence, do not keep brushing this topic off.

ASHA77 4y ago
NoImmatureAdHom 4y ago
IIRC changing the IMEI in the U.S. is legal. It may go against standards or something, but that's not a crime (though it would be an excuse for a carrier to kick you off their network, should they find out). I would be shocked if there were real consequences for IMEI spoofing in the U.S. absent any crime (like stealing lots of phones and changing the IMEIs).
- Handytinge 4y ago
  Luckily for the rest of us, the US is not "most countries", and makes up < 5% of the worlds population.
- throwaway67743 4y ago
  Ok so I should have said in sensible societies because IMEI changing does cause real issues like lack of 911 (in this case), however the 3gpp spec that governs all networks and devices, like your phone, prohibits IMEI changing -its not an innocuous operation as people assume Edit: the FCC isn't specific about it but I'd imagine it falls under existing fraud regulations which may or may not be a federal thing. A cursory Google suggests: A bill was introduced in the United States by Senator Chuck Schumer in 2012 that would have made the changing of an IMEI illegal, but the bill was not enacted. So in the USA specifically it is not a crime but in many places it is due to the aforementioned life at risk issue. As devices are made for global .markets in general, the above does not apply anyway as you cannot change it without manufacturer tools anyway, at which point different regulation applies. IMEI changes also have limited effect when fingerprinting is relatively easy.
  - zer0k3wl 4y ago
    Is no panacea to this problem everything has it's limits. Pairing an IMEI+IMSI rotation (which is perfectly lawful in many countries, grey in some and criminally prohibited in only a few) can be a very effective defense against network level threats to privacy.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > Ok so I should have said [that changing the IMEI of a phone is a criminal offense] in sensible societies because IMEI changing does cause real issues like lack of 911 (in this case) This would mean that, in sensible societies, failing to carry a phone on your person is a criminal offense. It is a position only a true idiot could even articulate.
    - throwaway67743 4y ago
      And again my point has been proven, you're assuming I'm making the argument that you've somehow come up with from what I said which does not even remotely match what i said, read it again and consider the possible reasons why 911 might not be usable. This is not difficult.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 4y ago
    The 911 issue seems small compared to the threat of totalitarian surveillance states, at least to me. I also have the strong intuition there's some way to implement emergency calling anonymously or pseudonymously using cryptographic trickery. In the end, I prefer living somewhere I can change the IMEI if I want And a hint--I believe it's actually quite easy using an edXposed module if you want to root your Android phone. Of course, then you've got a rooted phone, which is less secure.
- octoberfranklin 4y ago
  > IIRC changing the IMEI in the U.S. is legal. This is incorrect. Changing your IMEI it is illegal in the USA under the Wireless Telephone Protection Act of 1998: "Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit knowingly using, producing, trafficking in, having control or custody of, or possessing hardware or software knowing that it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument" https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493 https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493
  - throwaway67743 4y ago
    Thanks for finding this, as non-US trying to find relevant laws in the mess of multiple levels of law etc is difficult, i assumed the FCC would regulate this as the telecoms regulátor but it appears not
  - srwright 4y ago
    To be fair you're leaving out the last part of that sentence "... so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization."
    - octoberfranklin 4y ago
      Because it doesn't matter: none of the big three tower operators in the USA authorizes you to use their telecommunications service with a fake IMEI.
      - NoImmatureAdHom 4y ago
        Authorization by whom? I think if I'm paying my bill I have the telco's authorization. They're trying to prevent fraud that gets you free phone service here.
        octoberfranklin 4y ago
        > I think if I'm paying my bill I have the telco's authorization. That's nice. The courts think differently.

ASHA77 4y ago

NoImmatureAdHom 4y ago

IIRC changing the IMEI in the U.S. is legal. It may go against standards or something, but that's not a crime (though it would be an excuse for a carrier to kick you off their network, should they find out). I would be shocked if there were real consequences for IMEI spoofing in the U.S. absent any crime (like stealing lots of phones and changing the IMEIs).

Handytinge 4y ago
Luckily for the rest of us, the US is not "most countries", and makes up < 5% of the worlds population.
throwaway67743 4y ago
Ok so I should have said in sensible societies because IMEI changing does cause real issues like lack of 911 (in this case), however the 3gpp spec that governs all networks and devices, like your phone, prohibits IMEI changing -its not an innocuous operation as people assume Edit: the FCC isn't specific about it but I'd imagine it falls under existing fraud regulations which may or may not be a federal thing. A cursory Google suggests: A bill was introduced in the United States by Senator Chuck Schumer in 2012 that would have made the changing of an IMEI illegal, but the bill was not enacted. So in the USA specifically it is not a crime but in many places it is due to the aforementioned life at risk issue. As devices are made for global .markets in general, the above does not apply anyway as you cannot change it without manufacturer tools anyway, at which point different regulation applies. IMEI changes also have limited effect when fingerprinting is relatively easy.
- zer0k3wl 4y ago
  Is no panacea to this problem everything has it's limits. Pairing an IMEI+IMSI rotation (which is perfectly lawful in many countries, grey in some and criminally prohibited in only a few) can be a very effective defense against network level threats to privacy.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > Ok so I should have said [that changing the IMEI of a phone is a criminal offense] in sensible societies because IMEI changing does cause real issues like lack of 911 (in this case) This would mean that, in sensible societies, failing to carry a phone on your person is a criminal offense. It is a position only a true idiot could even articulate.
  - throwaway67743 4y ago
    And again my point has been proven, you're assuming I'm making the argument that you've somehow come up with from what I said which does not even remotely match what i said, read it again and consider the possible reasons why 911 might not be usable. This is not difficult.
- NoImmatureAdHom 4y ago
  The 911 issue seems small compared to the threat of totalitarian surveillance states, at least to me. I also have the strong intuition there's some way to implement emergency calling anonymously or pseudonymously using cryptographic trickery. In the end, I prefer living somewhere I can change the IMEI if I want And a hint--I believe it's actually quite easy using an edXposed module if you want to root your Android phone. Of course, then you've got a rooted phone, which is less secure.
octoberfranklin 4y ago
> IIRC changing the IMEI in the U.S. is legal. This is incorrect. Changing your IMEI it is illegal in the USA under the Wireless Telephone Protection Act of 1998: "Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit knowingly using, producing, trafficking in, having control or custody of, or possessing hardware or software knowing that it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument" https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493 https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493
- throwaway67743 4y ago
  Thanks for finding this, as non-US trying to find relevant laws in the mess of multiple levels of law etc is difficult, i assumed the FCC would regulate this as the telecoms regulátor but it appears not
- srwright 4y ago
  To be fair you're leaving out the last part of that sentence "... so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization."
  - octoberfranklin 4y ago
    Because it doesn't matter: none of the big three tower operators in the USA authorizes you to use their telecommunications service with a fake IMEI.
    - NoImmatureAdHom 4y ago
      Authorization by whom? I think if I'm paying my bill I have the telco's authorization. They're trying to prevent fraud that gets you free phone service here.
      - octoberfranklin 4y ago
        > I think if I'm paying my bill I have the telco's authorization. That's nice. The courts think differently.