6 ms·

I don't think energy is the limiting factor here. A better analogy would be with the limits of computability. Garbage collection tasks are postposed to when we'

I don't think energy is the limiting factor here. A better analogy would be with the limits of computability. Garbage collection tasks are postposed to when we're asleep, but they can only be put off for so long and there's a capacity for "stuff to consolidate later" that fills up. Something that you probably could get is a nob to control the adaptability/efficiency setting on your brain. At the cast of learning/remembering nothing, you could "execute" for longer. We know that real brains make this trade off, but the transition from one mode to the other is slow because it's reactive.

ElijahLynn 4y ago
Nice, Glutamate Garbage Collection.
ravi-delia 4y ago
It would frankly shock me if there wasn't some pricey but extant way to handle garbage collection more quickly. It would be laughably stupid to implement in a caloric desert, but I can't imagine there isn't some way to do time-sharing or a larger support network.
chundicus 4y ago
> Garbage collection tasks are postposed to when we're asleep, but they can only be put off for so long and there's a capacity for "stuff to consolidate later" that fills up Do we have a strong reason to believe that? I know brain and sleep mechanisms are tricky topics with lots of unknowns, but I thought I had read research that showed sleeping brains likely perform a chemical analogue to "garbage collection".
- tdaltonc 4y ago
  In addition to the chemical ones others discussed, there is informational "garbage collection" as well. There are a bunch of motor tasks that only show certain types improvement after sleep - not time, sleep. There are also rodent studies where you can do a learning task and then "clear" part of their hippocampus using optogenetics. If you clear it before sleep, they forget what they "learned" if you clear it after sleep they still remember it. Again, multiple clever conditions to control for time and separate it from sleep.
- f38zf5vdt 4y ago
  Indeed, it's called the glymphatic system. We evolved to have a circadian system that drains brain waste products during sleep. There are probably other unknown neurological consequences of sleep that remain to be detailed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18115-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18115-2
  - bmitc 4y ago
    It's not just us, as in humans. (Not saying you said otherwise.) Practically all animals sleep, even invertebrates like octopuses.
    - misja111 4y ago
      Even spiders do: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spiders-may-sleep-and-dream-like-people-study-finds/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20from%20a,feel%20rested%20and%20stay%20healthy https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spiders-may-sleep-and-dream-lik....
- Retric 4y ago
  It's unlikely for sleep to only do one thing. At a minimum it reduces caloric expenditures and accumulation of damage or risk through activity. It also allows time to heal injuries without the need for inflammation to immobilize the area. Really lack of movement is probably useful and harmful for all kinds of things. REM sleep probably has some brain benefits but moving the eyes may relate to circulating fluid within the eye etc etc.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  Microsleep is a GC pause.
radicaldreamer 4y ago
Dolphins are better adapted to this as they can turn off half their brain (and vice versa) while still functioning and alert for up to 15 days straight. Would be interesting if one day we could induce or evolve to have similar capabilities. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-sleep-with-only-half-their-brain-at-a-time-81426439/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-sleep-wit...
- tartoran 4y ago
  I hope our environment doesn’t become so adverse that we need to evolve that capability but little do we know about the human of the future, whether it will even be our ancestor or a complete different species.
  - koheripbal 4y ago
    The human of the future will likely be a computer.
    - tdaltonc 4y ago
      That makes as much sense as saying that they'll be a "steam engine."

ElijahLynn 4y ago

Nice, Glutamate Garbage Collection.

ravi-delia 4y ago

It would frankly shock me if there wasn't some pricey but extant way to handle garbage collection more quickly. It would be laughably stupid to implement in a caloric desert, but I can't imagine there isn't some way to do time-sharing or a larger support network.

chundicus 4y ago

> Garbage collection tasks are postposed to when we're asleep, but they can only be put off for so long and there's a capacity for "stuff to consolidate later" that fills up Do we have a strong reason to believe that? I know brain and sleep mechanisms are tricky topics with lots of unknowns, but I thought I had read research that showed sleeping brains likely perform a chemical analogue to "garbage collection".

tdaltonc 4y ago
In addition to the chemical ones others discussed, there is informational "garbage collection" as well. There are a bunch of motor tasks that only show certain types improvement after sleep - not time, sleep. There are also rodent studies where you can do a learning task and then "clear" part of their hippocampus using optogenetics. If you clear it before sleep, they forget what they "learned" if you clear it after sleep they still remember it. Again, multiple clever conditions to control for time and separate it from sleep.
f38zf5vdt 4y ago
Indeed, it's called the glymphatic system. We evolved to have a circadian system that drains brain waste products during sleep. There are probably other unknown neurological consequences of sleep that remain to be detailed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18115-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18115-2
- bmitc 4y ago
  It's not just us, as in humans. (Not saying you said otherwise.) Practically all animals sleep, even invertebrates like octopuses.
  - misja111 4y ago
    Even spiders do: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spiders-may-sleep-and-dream-like-people-study-finds/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20from%20a,feel%20rested%20and%20stay%20healthy https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spiders-may-sleep-and-dream-lik....
Retric 4y ago
It's unlikely for sleep to only do one thing. At a minimum it reduces caloric expenditures and accumulation of damage or risk through activity. It also allows time to heal injuries without the need for inflammation to immobilize the area. Really lack of movement is probably useful and harmful for all kinds of things. REM sleep probably has some brain benefits but moving the eyes may relate to circulating fluid within the eye etc etc.
eurasiantiger 4y ago
Microsleep is a GC pause.

radicaldreamer 4y ago

Dolphins are better adapted to this as they can turn off half their brain (and vice versa) while still functioning and alert for up to 15 days straight. Would be interesting if one day we could induce or evolve to have similar capabilities. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-sleep-with-only-half-their-brain-at-a-time-81426439/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-sleep-wit...

tartoran 4y ago
I hope our environment doesn’t become so adverse that we need to evolve that capability but little do we know about the human of the future, whether it will even be our ancestor or a complete different species.
- koheripbal 4y ago
  The human of the future will likely be a computer.
  - tdaltonc 4y ago
    That makes as much sense as saying that they'll be a "steam engine."