5 ms·

Are they really a violation of antitrust? They're not really different from exclusive supplier relationships or exclusivity deals in other industries. As you p

by jfim 4y ago

Are they really a violation of antitrust? They're not really different from exclusive supplier relationships or exclusivity deals in other industries. As you point out, it's pretty accepted in the copyright industry to have exclusivity deals. If I want to get Katy Perry's album, then I buy the Capitol records one, I can't get it from Sony. Or I can only stream on services where that artist is available, so if it's not on Tidal, then tough luck for users of that service.

Forgeties79 4y ago
Music is a little different because you don’t need proprietary hardware in order to listen to music. Everything plays an MP3. A CD is a CD and all CD players play CD’s. With console video games, you can’t just pop the game disc into any disc tray that plays games. You can’t run your downloaded Xbox game on the PlayStation. The thing you licensed (since we don’t own them technically) is tied to proprietary hardware. Imagine if you had to own a Mac in order to listen to your music you bought on iTunes/Apple Music
- Animats 4y ago
  Microsoft tried that with Zune.[1] It was unpopular. [1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/support-for-rights-managed-purchases-in-zune-69161d07-acae-1fdf-f98f-e0916758e49b https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/support-for-rights...
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    Man I remember that. Great device if you wanted to tinker, terrible music store.
- hiptobecubic 4y ago
  Both of those formats require(d) licensing didn't they?
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    Not from the consumer, just the manufacturers. As a consumer you bought a piece of hardware that could read the format and it worked across-the-board. With Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo, you buy the game and not only is it linked to the format, but it’s actually linked to their proprietary hardware. You can’t buy an Xbox game, which is exactly the same as the PlayStation version, and play it on the PlayStation. But I can buy a song online on my Mac and play it on VLC on a Windows machine. Imagine if any music I buy on bandcamp could only be played via a bandcamp app or software on bandcamp’s proprietary hardware.
bushbaba 4y ago
Exclusivity and Blocking is not the same. Paying you to put the content only on my platform isn’t nearly as anti trust as paying you to not put your content on a specific platform
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  Surely they aren't foolish enough to explicitly say in the contract they can't bring the game to Microsoft's platforms? It would just say "no alternate platforms allowed between the dates of ..." or similar?
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    That would be an exclusivity clause.
- Nomentatus 4y ago
  Excluding only one is a more minor restrain of trade than excluding all others? I can't agree, though I admit that excluding one looks nastier if only 'cause it's novel. Logically and economically, re competition, blocking seems less nasty, even if targeted. But that doesn't mean the courts will side with me and not you. Strict logical coherence isn't always adhered to. It's even been called "the hobgoblin of little minds" - so perhaps Emerson would take your side on this.
  - dehugger 4y ago
    Imagine you own a mattress store. There is another rival mattress store in your city, and you both compete for customers. You don't make the mattresses yourselves, you purchase from a manufacturer and sell in your storefront. There are only a few different mattress manufacturers. Your rival, instead of adjusting prices or organizing better marketing, simply plays the manufacturers not to sell to your store for six months. Unless you can rapidly find a brand new source of mattresses or have a very healthy rainy day fund, you will likely go under fairly quickly after selling your remaining stock. This leaves only one store in town, and they can set the price to whatever they want. Now that they are the only established incumbent they can easily recreate this scenario with any new mattress stores that want to open in your city. Now the people of your city have only one store for mattresses, and have to pay whatever is asked for. This is not because the business did anything especially well to win more customers, or because you did anything wrong. They simply destroyed the competition through anti-competitive behavior and have negatively affected everyone else in your area. This is why it is illegal.
gnopgnip 4y ago
This breaks down for music because of mandatory licensing
grapescheesee 4y ago
Or buying Activision/Blizzard or Bethesda. Game pass is bad news for the industry at large. The price floor will drop and quality will suffer. Sure, its great for 'consumers', but it won't be long term. Will Xbox require mandatory three year game pass or onstar when you buy it? Would that be an antitrust violation?
- JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
  I wonder if it is good for consumers though. Everyone I know that has it seems to just dabble puddle deep in game after game now and lose interest. Each person has a very expensive Xbox that they don’t play now. Maybe there is something to purchasing a game that makes you assign it worth. For me, the joy of games is getting deep into them, learning everything about them and finishing them. I have 500 hours in Elden Ring haha. I wonder if the fact that a game is almost free makes people subconsciously think it is worthless.
  - jfim 4y ago
    It's the paradox of choice. The more options you have, the less satisfied you are with any of them, or overall in general.

by jfim 4y ago

Forgeties79 4y ago

Music is a little different because you don’t need proprietary hardware in order to listen to music. Everything plays an MP3. A CD is a CD and all CD players play CD’s. With console video games, you can’t just pop the game disc into any disc tray that plays games. You can’t run your downloaded Xbox game on the PlayStation. The thing you licensed (since we don’t own them technically) is tied to proprietary hardware. Imagine if you had to own a Mac in order to listen to your music you bought on iTunes/Apple Music

Animats 4y ago
Microsoft tried that with Zune.[1] It was unpopular. [1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/support-for-rights-managed-purchases-in-zune-69161d07-acae-1fdf-f98f-e0916758e49b https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/support-for-rights...
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  Man I remember that. Great device if you wanted to tinker, terrible music store.
hiptobecubic 4y ago
Both of those formats require(d) licensing didn't they?
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  Not from the consumer, just the manufacturers. As a consumer you bought a piece of hardware that could read the format and it worked across-the-board. With Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo, you buy the game and not only is it linked to the format, but it’s actually linked to their proprietary hardware. You can’t buy an Xbox game, which is exactly the same as the PlayStation version, and play it on the PlayStation. But I can buy a song online on my Mac and play it on VLC on a Windows machine. Imagine if any music I buy on bandcamp could only be played via a bandcamp app or software on bandcamp’s proprietary hardware.

bushbaba 4y ago

Exclusivity and Blocking is not the same. Paying you to put the content only on my platform isn’t nearly as anti trust as paying you to not put your content on a specific platform

sidewndr46 4y ago
Surely they aren't foolish enough to explicitly say in the contract they can't bring the game to Microsoft's platforms? It would just say "no alternate platforms allowed between the dates of ..." or similar?
- bushbaba 4y ago
  That would be an exclusivity clause.
Nomentatus 4y ago
Excluding only one is a more minor restrain of trade than excluding all others? I can't agree, though I admit that excluding one looks nastier if only 'cause it's novel. Logically and economically, re competition, blocking seems less nasty, even if targeted. But that doesn't mean the courts will side with me and not you. Strict logical coherence isn't always adhered to. It's even been called "the hobgoblin of little minds" - so perhaps Emerson would take your side on this.
- dehugger 4y ago
  Imagine you own a mattress store. There is another rival mattress store in your city, and you both compete for customers. You don't make the mattresses yourselves, you purchase from a manufacturer and sell in your storefront. There are only a few different mattress manufacturers. Your rival, instead of adjusting prices or organizing better marketing, simply plays the manufacturers not to sell to your store for six months. Unless you can rapidly find a brand new source of mattresses or have a very healthy rainy day fund, you will likely go under fairly quickly after selling your remaining stock. This leaves only one store in town, and they can set the price to whatever they want. Now that they are the only established incumbent they can easily recreate this scenario with any new mattress stores that want to open in your city. Now the people of your city have only one store for mattresses, and have to pay whatever is asked for. This is not because the business did anything especially well to win more customers, or because you did anything wrong. They simply destroyed the competition through anti-competitive behavior and have negatively affected everyone else in your area. This is why it is illegal.

gnopgnip 4y ago

This breaks down for music because of mandatory licensing

grapescheesee 4y ago

Or buying Activision/Blizzard or Bethesda. Game pass is bad news for the industry at large. The price floor will drop and quality will suffer. Sure, its great for 'consumers', but it won't be long term. Will Xbox require mandatory three year game pass or onstar when you buy it? Would that be an antitrust violation?

JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
I wonder if it is good for consumers though. Everyone I know that has it seems to just dabble puddle deep in game after game now and lose interest. Each person has a very expensive Xbox that they don’t play now. Maybe there is something to purchasing a game that makes you assign it worth. For me, the joy of games is getting deep into them, learning everything about them and finishing them. I have 500 hours in Elden Ring haha. I wonder if the fact that a game is almost free makes people subconsciously think it is worthless.
- jfim 4y ago
  It's the paradox of choice. The more options you have, the less satisfied you are with any of them, or overall in general.