5 ms·

When I look at this I can’t help thinking that desktop UX reached its peak (or plateau?) three decades ago. What improvements have there been since System 6? Pe

When I look at this I can’t help thinking that desktop UX reached its peak (or plateau?) three decades ago. What improvements have there been since System 6? Perhaps multiple desktops, tabs, and universal search (e.g. Spotlight) but those improvements feel more incremental than fundamental.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
thih9 4y ago
> What improvements have there been since System 6 I can use touch gestures, scroll intuitively or swipe between recently active websites or apps on my iOS device. I can work seamlessly on the same document using multiple devices and/or with multiple people. (Web) UX advances let me view maps, browse apartment listings, compare various kinds of products and order stuff online. Then again, not sure how much all that is worth since I still use console for work.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  To be fair, they said desktop OS, where touch is pretty much irrelevant. Desktop OS has mostly been marked by innovations that didn’t really pan out even if they were interesting (e.g. Windows 8 and the tile-based Metro UX)
  - thih9 4y ago
    > To be fair, they said desktop OS, where touch is pretty much irrelevant. My preferred way of interacting with a desktop OS is via a touchpad.
jahewson 4y ago
Why would you expect the fundamentals to change? Wouldn’t that be a bad sign?
flenserboy 4y ago
System 6, with a few small tweaks (I liked MultiFinder, but it could have been done better), is pretty much an ideal desktop interface aimed at work. The problem is that modern interfaces are there for people who either aren't working or who aren't paying attention enough to notice consistency (indeed, they can be confused by it). I witnessed today for the first time someone search the web from the Windows Start menu search box; I think most people have no understanding that what they're using is an actual, underlying system, but is instead presented from the internet. They want to type in a word, click on the first answer, and move on. Well-made interfaces get in the way of that.
KerrAvon 4y ago
Specifically on the Mac? Tasteful color UI elements (System 7). Unicode support. Multitouch trackpad gestures for window/app management. Dragging data and files between applications (System 7 Pro, IIRC). The ability to run more than one application at once (MultiFinder, but really only standard in System 7). Not having to manually allocate the amount of RAM an app should use (Mac OS X). The zoom box actually being useful (System 7). Being able to move (some) modal dialogs (System 7). Finder being able to do more than one file operation simultaneously (Mac OS 8). Window minimization (Mac OS 8). Menus that don't require you to keep holding the mouse button down (Mac OS 8). Countless others, really -- System 6 is a very different UX. There's likely some element of modernity you'd actually miss.
NegativeLatency 4y ago
Scroll wheel support
Flankk 4y ago
It's basically the same as the System 1 which was just a ripoff of the stuff at Xerox PARC. That is where things really went from zero to one, on a lot of things. The same thing happened with programming languages. C sparked a revolution and languages have been getting incrementally more bloated (and terrible) ever since. I think the difference stems from academic versus capitalist roots. I mean, even Xerox didn't want the stuff they had created.
- bacchusracine 4y ago
  >It's basically the same as the System 1 which was just a ripoff of the stuff at Xerox PARC. People say things like this and because they haven't researched the matter more deeply they miss out on some great gems from that such as the way overlapping windows worked on Apple's Macintosh compared to how Xerox did things because the Apple engineers didn't know how Xerox did it, thought they were doing more than they did and in the course of trying to recreate it invented something better. A reference to what I mean can be found here: http://novel.tingroom.com/lizhi/1019/30667.html http://novel.tingroom.com/lizhi/1019/30667.html The bottom line is that even re-implementing something can lead to creativity and extend the original in exciting new ways as a result. To my mind that makes it much less a 'ripoff' since it's a new way of doing things.
  - Flankk 4y ago
    I'm not sure what you are referencing from that. It reiterates what I stated, not what you are saying. "Great Artists Steal" etc. The developers sat down and had everything explained to them. I'm not sure what you mean by "engineers didn't know how Xerox did it."
- kergonath 4y ago
  > which was just a ripoff of the stuff at Xerox PARC It was not a ripoff. They had a license agreement and a whole bunch of people went from PARC (where they felt they had amazing technologies but could not do much with them because Xerox did not care) to Apple (where they could actually put a lot of ideas in practice). > That is where things really went from zero to one, on a lot of things. Some things. Others did not exist at the time and there have been a lot of improvements since then. Things done at PARC also depended on a lot of groundwork done by people like Turing and in places like the Bell Labs. Yet we don’t argue that Babbage was the real revolution and nothing of note happened since then.
mrweasel 4y ago
A desktop environment for Linux, based on Windows 3.11, System 6 or 7 would be a really nice addition. You can even go as far as Windows 95. It wasn't pretty, but it was simple and at least tried to help you use the system efficiently. Over time we seem to have decided that people where familiar enough with computers that we could drop manuals or hints in the UI. On a modern Mac there's a ton of keyboard shortcuts, gestures and helpful feature, there's just no good way to learn about them. I think where missing out on a ton of stuff, simply due to poor discoverability.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

thih9 4y ago

> What improvements have there been since System 6 I can use touch gestures, scroll intuitively or swipe between recently active websites or apps on my iOS device. I can work seamlessly on the same document using multiple devices and/or with multiple people. (Web) UX advances let me view maps, browse apartment listings, compare various kinds of products and order stuff online. Then again, not sure how much all that is worth since I still use console for work.

bobthepanda 4y ago
To be fair, they said desktop OS, where touch is pretty much irrelevant. Desktop OS has mostly been marked by innovations that didn’t really pan out even if they were interesting (e.g. Windows 8 and the tile-based Metro UX)
- thih9 4y ago
  > To be fair, they said desktop OS, where touch is pretty much irrelevant. My preferred way of interacting with a desktop OS is via a touchpad.

jahewson 4y ago

Why would you expect the fundamentals to change? Wouldn’t that be a bad sign?

flenserboy 4y ago

System 6, with a few small tweaks (I liked MultiFinder, but it could have been done better), is pretty much an ideal desktop interface aimed at work. The problem is that modern interfaces are there for people who either aren't working or who aren't paying attention enough to notice consistency (indeed, they can be confused by it). I witnessed today for the first time someone search the web from the Windows Start menu search box; I think most people have no understanding that what they're using is an actual, underlying system, but is instead presented from the internet. They want to type in a word, click on the first answer, and move on. Well-made interfaces get in the way of that.

KerrAvon 4y ago

Specifically on the Mac? Tasteful color UI elements (System 7). Unicode support. Multitouch trackpad gestures for window/app management. Dragging data and files between applications (System 7 Pro, IIRC). The ability to run more than one application at once (MultiFinder, but really only standard in System 7). Not having to manually allocate the amount of RAM an app should use (Mac OS X). The zoom box actually being useful (System 7). Being able to move (some) modal dialogs (System 7). Finder being able to do more than one file operation simultaneously (Mac OS 8). Window minimization (Mac OS 8). Menus that don't require you to keep holding the mouse button down (Mac OS 8). Countless others, really -- System 6 is a very different UX. There's likely some element of modernity you'd actually miss.

NegativeLatency 4y ago

Scroll wheel support

Flankk 4y ago

It's basically the same as the System 1 which was just a ripoff of the stuff at Xerox PARC. That is where things really went from zero to one, on a lot of things. The same thing happened with programming languages. C sparked a revolution and languages have been getting incrementally more bloated (and terrible) ever since. I think the difference stems from academic versus capitalist roots. I mean, even Xerox didn't want the stuff they had created.

bacchusracine 4y ago
>It's basically the same as the System 1 which was just a ripoff of the stuff at Xerox PARC. People say things like this and because they haven't researched the matter more deeply they miss out on some great gems from that such as the way overlapping windows worked on Apple's Macintosh compared to how Xerox did things because the Apple engineers didn't know how Xerox did it, thought they were doing more than they did and in the course of trying to recreate it invented something better. A reference to what I mean can be found here: http://novel.tingroom.com/lizhi/1019/30667.html http://novel.tingroom.com/lizhi/1019/30667.html The bottom line is that even re-implementing something can lead to creativity and extend the original in exciting new ways as a result. To my mind that makes it much less a 'ripoff' since it's a new way of doing things.
- Flankk 4y ago
  I'm not sure what you are referencing from that. It reiterates what I stated, not what you are saying. "Great Artists Steal" etc. The developers sat down and had everything explained to them. I'm not sure what you mean by "engineers didn't know how Xerox did it."
kergonath 4y ago
> which was just a ripoff of the stuff at Xerox PARC It was not a ripoff. They had a license agreement and a whole bunch of people went from PARC (where they felt they had amazing technologies but could not do much with them because Xerox did not care) to Apple (where they could actually put a lot of ideas in practice). > That is where things really went from zero to one, on a lot of things. Some things. Others did not exist at the time and there have been a lot of improvements since then. Things done at PARC also depended on a lot of groundwork done by people like Turing and in places like the Bell Labs. Yet we don’t argue that Babbage was the real revolution and nothing of note happened since then.

mrweasel 4y ago

A desktop environment for Linux, based on Windows 3.11, System 6 or 7 would be a really nice addition. You can even go as far as Windows 95. It wasn't pretty, but it was simple and at least tried to help you use the system efficiently. Over time we seem to have decided that people where familiar enough with computers that we could drop manuals or hints in the UI. On a modern Mac there's a ton of keyboard shortcuts, gestures and helpful feature, there's just no good way to learn about them. I think where missing out on a ton of stuff, simply due to poor discoverability.