4 ms·

There was talk during the Trump administration of bringing the tax code in line such that it could “fit on a large postcard” or something like that. That went o

There was talk during the Trump administration of bringing the tax code in line such that it could “fit on a large postcard” or something like that. That went out the window for the final bill. I have to imagine that tax simplification would provide as much benefit to revenue as boosting audit counts. I’m told in European countries that y’all have your taxes pre-calculated and sent to your homes? I’m flabbergasted that we don’t do the same.

shkkmo 4y ago
> I’m flabbergasted that we don’t do the same. It is because Intuit and other large tax preparers have lobbied heavily against anything that makes taxes easier to file.
- missedthecue 4y ago
  How are you sure it's because of that?
  - washbrain 4y ago
    It's widely reported and widely understood that lobbying has specifically killed bills that have been introduced to simplify tax prep.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    From Intuit's own files: > Internal presentations lay out company tactics for fighting “encroachment,” Intuit’s catchall term for any government initiative to make filing taxes easier — such as creating a free government filing system or pre-filling people’s returns with payroll or other data the IRS already has. “For a decade proposals have sought to create IRS tax software or a ReturnFree Tax System; All were stopped,” reads a confidential 2007 PowerPoint presentation from an Intuit board of directors meeting. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Yes. Another important note however is there are several politicians in a strange alliance that sees any simplification of a tax filing process as being bad because they are of the "all taxation is theft" and "I want to drown the government in the bathtub" mindset and making people hate taxes by making the process miserable is their favorite way to keep people angry at the government.
junar 4y ago
What actually happened is that Form 1040 got sliced into multiple pages. Going from 2017 to 2018, the 1040 went from 79 lines [1] to 23 lines [2]. The remaining 50 or so lines? Moved to Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. So if your return had any amount of complexity, you probably needed more pages that year. Today's Form 1040 [3] is somewhere in the middle. The form itself has 38 lines, and the numbered schedules have been consolidated from 6 to 3. [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2017.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2017.pdf [2] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2018.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2018.pdf [3] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2021.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2021.pdf
ghaff 4y ago
It probably should be for simpler taxes. Although if all you have is a W-2 and a standard deduction (and maybe a 1099), your taxes are pretty straightforward to file. But things get complicated in a hurry in the US. My taxes aren't unreasonably complicated with only maybe a couple things that aren't pretty routine. And I still end up with a 1" thick sheaf of paper between federal and state taxes from my accountant.

shkkmo 4y ago

> I’m flabbergasted that we don’t do the same. It is because Intuit and other large tax preparers have lobbied heavily against anything that makes taxes easier to file.

missedthecue 4y ago
How are you sure it's because of that?
- washbrain 4y ago
  It's widely reported and widely understood that lobbying has specifically killed bills that have been introduced to simplify tax prep.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  From Intuit's own files: > Internal presentations lay out company tactics for fighting “encroachment,” Intuit’s catchall term for any government initiative to make filing taxes easier — such as creating a free government filing system or pre-filling people’s returns with payroll or other data the IRS already has. “For a decade proposals have sought to create IRS tax software or a ReturnFree Tax System; All were stopped,” reads a confidential 2007 PowerPoint presentation from an Intuit board of directors meeting. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Yes. Another important note however is there are several politicians in a strange alliance that sees any simplification of a tax filing process as being bad because they are of the "all taxation is theft" and "I want to drown the government in the bathtub" mindset and making people hate taxes by making the process miserable is their favorite way to keep people angry at the government.

junar 4y ago

What actually happened is that Form 1040 got sliced into multiple pages. Going from 2017 to 2018, the 1040 went from 79 lines [1] to 23 lines [2]. The remaining 50 or so lines? Moved to Schedules 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. So if your return had any amount of complexity, you probably needed more pages that year. Today's Form 1040 [3] is somewhere in the middle. The form itself has 38 lines, and the numbered schedules have been consolidated from 6 to 3. [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2017.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2017.pdf [2] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2018.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2018.pdf [3] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2021.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040--2021.pdf

ghaff 4y ago

It probably should be for simpler taxes. Although if all you have is a W-2 and a standard deduction (and maybe a 1099), your taxes are pretty straightforward to file. But things get complicated in a hurry in the US. My taxes aren't unreasonably complicated with only maybe a couple things that aren't pretty routine. And I still end up with a 1" thick sheaf of paper between federal and state taxes from my accountant.