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For every proposed crypto use case, there already exists a better solution that does not use crypto currency technology.

AnonC 4y ago
Transferring money across countries without the government seizing or controlling it. Can you list what non-cryptocurrency technology provides a better solution for that? There are several countries with permanent or temporary restrictions (I think Russia and Ukraine are recent examples).
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Changing that is very much a non-goal. Just ask Treasury. Countries on the up-and-up are welcome to use Wise. [1] The ones that aren't are broadly cut off from the global financial networks for very good reasons. Either way, if you disagree with those reasons you're free to lobby for changes - but the ability to exclude them is overwhelmingly a good thing. [1] https://wise.com/ https://wise.com/
  - AnonC 4y ago
    This is not relevant, since the comment I replied to said any use case. I just picked one that’s a need for certain people in certain places. It’s not a non-goal for them, and what governments want or push for may not be as good as you believe.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      They meant a use case other than crime. I mean look, it's not really even good for that. You have a public ledger of all your illegal transactions that you then share directly with law enforcement for them to feed into their automatic crime detection engines. Why bother with pro forma warrants? Just email your transactions directly to the FBI and have them make sure you didn't do anything wrong, I always say. Dr Nicholas Weaver from UC Berkeley referred to such transactions as prosecution futures. I agree. After all, you're not even defending against current deanonymization tooling, you're defending against all future such tooling. Pepperidge Farm remembers Tornado Cash. [edit] If I were in an authoritarian state capable of oppressing me, the last thing I'd do is use Bitcoin lol.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- candiodari 4y ago
  Never mind seizing, how about without 10 organisations, including 2 governments, taxing it. With bitcoin or other crypto you can get it down to 2 organisations, which is a big improvement already.
- stouset 4y ago
  If the government decides they want to seize or control it, they can also decide to simply imprison you for attempting to flout these restrictions via cryptocurrency. While that isn't currently happening much (that we know about), it's inevitable this will become a more likely threat as more people attempt to use it for that purpose. And yes, I am aware that there exist cryptocurrencies that attempt (with varying degrees of success) to prevent the kind of analysis that would make this sort of enforcement possible.
- wyre 4y ago
  If this is the best use case shouldn’t discussion be promoting crypto designed for this like XLM or XMR, instead of whatever new Ethereum-based project that is most likely a Ponzi scheme?
Analemma_ 4y ago
Well, except the illegal ones.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  And facilitating "illegal" transactions is a right thing to do when the government is legalizing bad stuff. Shared a lot of examples here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32406095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32406095
- brokenkebab2 4y ago
  "Illegal" is not equivalent to "bad thing", though. There are more people living under oppressive regimes than not.
RestlessMind 4y ago
False. Show me a better solution for asserting and verifying proof of ownership for digital media. NFT does it far better than DRM. Also, x-border international money transfer.

AnonC 4y ago

Transferring money across countries without the government seizing or controlling it. Can you list what non-cryptocurrency technology provides a better solution for that? There are several countries with permanent or temporary restrictions (I think Russia and Ukraine are recent examples).

arcticbull 4y ago
Changing that is very much a non-goal. Just ask Treasury. Countries on the up-and-up are welcome to use Wise. [1] The ones that aren't are broadly cut off from the global financial networks for very good reasons. Either way, if you disagree with those reasons you're free to lobby for changes - but the ability to exclude them is overwhelmingly a good thing. [1] https://wise.com/ https://wise.com/
- AnonC 4y ago
  This is not relevant, since the comment I replied to said any use case. I just picked one that’s a need for certain people in certain places. It’s not a non-goal for them, and what governments want or push for may not be as good as you believe.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    They meant a use case other than crime. I mean look, it's not really even good for that. You have a public ledger of all your illegal transactions that you then share directly with law enforcement for them to feed into their automatic crime detection engines. Why bother with pro forma warrants? Just email your transactions directly to the FBI and have them make sure you didn't do anything wrong, I always say. Dr Nicholas Weaver from UC Berkeley referred to such transactions as prosecution futures. I agree. After all, you're not even defending against current deanonymization tooling, you're defending against all future such tooling. Pepperidge Farm remembers Tornado Cash. [edit] If I were in an authoritarian state capable of oppressing me, the last thing I'd do is use Bitcoin lol.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
candiodari 4y ago
Never mind seizing, how about without 10 organisations, including 2 governments, taxing it. With bitcoin or other crypto you can get it down to 2 organisations, which is a big improvement already.
stouset 4y ago
If the government decides they want to seize or control it, they can also decide to simply imprison you for attempting to flout these restrictions via cryptocurrency. While that isn't currently happening much (that we know about), it's inevitable this will become a more likely threat as more people attempt to use it for that purpose. And yes, I am aware that there exist cryptocurrencies that attempt (with varying degrees of success) to prevent the kind of analysis that would make this sort of enforcement possible.
wyre 4y ago
If this is the best use case shouldn’t discussion be promoting crypto designed for this like XLM or XMR, instead of whatever new Ethereum-based project that is most likely a Ponzi scheme?

Analemma_ 4y ago

Well, except the illegal ones.

RestlessMind 4y ago
And facilitating "illegal" transactions is a right thing to do when the government is legalizing bad stuff. Shared a lot of examples here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32406095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32406095
brokenkebab2 4y ago
"Illegal" is not equivalent to "bad thing", though. There are more people living under oppressive regimes than not.

RestlessMind 4y ago

False. Show me a better solution for asserting and verifying proof of ownership for digital media. NFT does it far better than DRM. Also, x-border international money transfer.