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I think this looks horrible on LiveDrive. LiveDrive should have initiated a plan to get the data from the users of Backifys back to them even if Backify was be

by marcf 15y ago

I think this looks horrible on LiveDrive. LiveDrive should have initiated a plan to get the data from the users of Backifys back to them even if Backify was being discontinued. LiveDrive could have gotten massive goodwill if they did this, even if they offered to transition the data to another service. This complete loss of information is brutal and I would stay away from LiveDrive as they don't know how to properly handle important relationships. The situation should be explained in detail and an open letter by LiveDrive stating what is going wrong with Backify. This would have informed users of the situation and of Backify's actions. I believe that the data loss could have been avoided even if Backify's owners were acting fraudulently.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- marcf 15y ago
  "That's a legal Pandora's box in exchange for some uncertain marketing return." And this letter isn't a risk? If Backify is going to sue and LiveDrive is in the wrong, then they have enough reasons in this letter and from LiveDrive's actions already. Then open letter sharing what was going on wouldn't carry additional risks that this other letter, in fact because it would precede data loss actions or direct advice to Backify's customers to avoid credit card purchases, it would carry less risk.
cawhitworth 15y ago
On the other hand, everyone crucified DropBox when it turned out they had the ability to arbitrarily access user data. Turns out people don't want companies to have access to their private data, right up until they do.
- SriniK 15y ago
  My shameless plug: http://safebox.fabulasolutions.com/ http://safebox.fabulasolutions.com/ released few days ago to take care of end-to-end encryption.
mhw 15y ago
> LiveDrive should have initiated a plan to get the data from the users of Backifys back to them even if Backify was being discontinued. The problem is that all those users' backups are (probably) stored away as insurance against a possible future data-loss event. So for LiveDrive to offer a useful service to these customers they'd have to undertake to continue to provide access to the backups for some extended period of time. Without that kind of undertaking the backup data is not worth very much - the user would be running the risk that their hard drive goes pop the day after LiveDrive finally decide to end supporting the old Backify users. Another way of looking at it: if I've just done a routine backup of my machine through Backify, downloading all that data again is probably the last thing I want to do (unless my machine just blew up). What I want is for someone to look after it until I do need it.
- mikeash 15y ago
  If you don't need a backup right away, then this loss really doesn't affect you. Just switch to a new provider and be on your way. The people who get screwed here are people who just lost data, or who lose data before they can switch providers. All LiveDrive really needs to do is make the data available for a short time to cover those people. A month would be more than enough, and probably even just a week would do it.
  - Rantenki 15y ago
    Yes, yes it does affect them. Much like losing a drive in a raid5 array, the time to rebuild (re-upload a new backup) is a critical period of time where you don't have any redundancy. Any failure during this period means losing all your data. Livedrive really threw Backify under the bus, and Backify really proved that a single level of redundancy isn't enough. Blame to go all around, although I feel bad for Backify.
    - mikeash 15y ago
      I agree that it's critical, but most people won't suffer a second failure in this period. My point is simply that, while, most people won't suffer (just as most people don't need backups at any given moment, just over the long term), those few that will show what could happen to everyone else.
jackgavigan 15y ago
I think this looks horrible on LiveDrive. LiveDrive should have initiated a plan to get the data from the users of Backifys back to them even if Backify was being discontinued. Are you certain (and when I say "certain", I mean not just speculating about how things were set up between LiveDrive and Backify) that LiveDrive are able to tell, without a shadow of a doubt, which files belong to which Backify clients? This could be a potential legal nightmare for LiveDrive if they were to end up giving access to someone's backups to the wrong person.
- marcf 15y ago
  "Are you certain (and when I say "certain", I mean not just speculating about how things were set up between LiveDrive and Backify) that LiveDrive are able to tell, without a shadow of a doubt, which files belong to which Backify clients?" See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3242903 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3242903
  - jackgavigan 15y ago
    Fairy muff!
halostatue 15y ago
This looks horrendously horrible on LiveDrive. Not only for the customers of their reseller that they've screwed, but for their resellers. I would never become a LiveDrive reseller after this debacle.

by marcf 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

marcf 15y ago
"That's a legal Pandora's box in exchange for some uncertain marketing return." And this letter isn't a risk? If Backify is going to sue and LiveDrive is in the wrong, then they have enough reasons in this letter and from LiveDrive's actions already. Then open letter sharing what was going on wouldn't carry additional risks that this other letter, in fact because it would precede data loss actions or direct advice to Backify's customers to avoid credit card purchases, it would carry less risk.

cawhitworth 15y ago

On the other hand, everyone crucified DropBox when it turned out they had the ability to arbitrarily access user data. Turns out people don't want companies to have access to their private data, right up until they do.

SriniK 15y ago
My shameless plug: http://safebox.fabulasolutions.com/ http://safebox.fabulasolutions.com/ released few days ago to take care of end-to-end encryption.

mhw 15y ago

> LiveDrive should have initiated a plan to get the data from the users of Backifys back to them even if Backify was being discontinued. The problem is that all those users' backups are (probably) stored away as insurance against a possible future data-loss event. So for LiveDrive to offer a useful service to these customers they'd have to undertake to continue to provide access to the backups for some extended period of time. Without that kind of undertaking the backup data is not worth very much - the user would be running the risk that their hard drive goes pop the day after LiveDrive finally decide to end supporting the old Backify users. Another way of looking at it: if I've just done a routine backup of my machine through Backify, downloading all that data again is probably the last thing I want to do (unless my machine just blew up). What I want is for someone to look after it until I do need it.

mikeash 15y ago
If you don't need a backup right away, then this loss really doesn't affect you. Just switch to a new provider and be on your way. The people who get screwed here are people who just lost data, or who lose data before they can switch providers. All LiveDrive really needs to do is make the data available for a short time to cover those people. A month would be more than enough, and probably even just a week would do it.
- Rantenki 15y ago
  Yes, yes it does affect them. Much like losing a drive in a raid5 array, the time to rebuild (re-upload a new backup) is a critical period of time where you don't have any redundancy. Any failure during this period means losing all your data. Livedrive really threw Backify under the bus, and Backify really proved that a single level of redundancy isn't enough. Blame to go all around, although I feel bad for Backify.
  - mikeash 15y ago
    I agree that it's critical, but most people won't suffer a second failure in this period. My point is simply that, while, most people won't suffer (just as most people don't need backups at any given moment, just over the long term), those few that will show what could happen to everyone else.

jackgavigan 15y ago

I think this looks horrible on LiveDrive. LiveDrive should have initiated a plan to get the data from the users of Backifys back to them even if Backify was being discontinued. Are you certain (and when I say "certain", I mean not just speculating about how things were set up between LiveDrive and Backify) that LiveDrive are able to tell, without a shadow of a doubt, which files belong to which Backify clients? This could be a potential legal nightmare for LiveDrive if they were to end up giving access to someone's backups to the wrong person.

marcf 15y ago
"Are you certain (and when I say "certain", I mean not just speculating about how things were set up between LiveDrive and Backify) that LiveDrive are able to tell, without a shadow of a doubt, which files belong to which Backify clients?" See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3242903 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3242903
- jackgavigan 15y ago
  Fairy muff!

halostatue 15y ago

This looks horrendously horrible on LiveDrive. Not only for the customers of their reseller that they've screwed, but for their resellers. I would never become a LiveDrive reseller after this debacle.