49 ms·

It's not an anti-LGBT organization. It is an organization concerned that the police have embraced trans ideologies that don't have the support of most of the UK

by Veen 4y ago

It's not an anti-LGBT organization. It is an organization concerned that the police have embraced trans ideologies that don't have the support of most of the UK population. It is in many ways similar to the LGB Alliance, which has a similar position with regard to the T in LGBT. Many of its supporters are gay, including a large number of lesbian feminists who support its goals.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
The LGB Alliance is funded by the Heritage Foundation, and are widely regarded in the UK as a thinly disguised hate group. Make of that what you will.
- gawbla 4y ago
  > The LGB Alliance is funded by the Heritage Foundation No it is not. Please don't spread mistruths. > and are widely regarded in the UK as a thinly disguised hate group I doubt that most people in the UK have heard of this charity. Also this is a very disingenuous view of their aims.
- implements 4y ago
  (Non-combative) do you have a non-partisan source? - I ask because I’ve seen that and other similar statements (“The LGB Alliance is an astroturfed organisation”) on Twitter, and wonder if they’re objectively true or exaggerations / distortions from opposing activists?
  - notahacker 4y ago
    It's almost impossible to find non-partisan sources on culture war debates and the definition of "astroturfed" is debatable. It is true that the LGB Alliance was formed by a small group of primarily lesbians who strongly disagreed with positions held longstanding LGBT groups that had historically campaigned for lesbian (and gay) rights. It is also true that the Heritage Foundation, more noted for sponsoring anti-gay groups, is its primary sponsor, and that the group's primary activity is campaigning against gender recognition and access to treatment for gender dysphoria. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the group is quite popular with conservative journalists and highly unpopular with most lesbian and gay people familiar with them.
    - implements 4y ago
      > is also true that the Heritage Foundation […] is its primary sponsor, I can’t find evidence of this, and the LGBA website says their primary funding comes from individual donations. https://staging.lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/gary-powell-why-the-gender-ideology-activists-are-wrong-about-me-the-heritage-foundation-and-lgb-alliance/ https://staging.lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/gary-powell-wh... The above article makes this point: Why would it donate to an organisation that campaigns for lesbian, gay and bisexual rights, that has an overwhelmingly left-wing membership, and that was founded by two left-wing lesbian feminists? - given the LGBA’s position is: “(W)e do not, and will not, forge links with, or accept funding from, any organisation… that seeks to undermine women’s reproductive rights.” - which the Heritage Foundation oppose, I gather. I’m inclined to believe the Heritage Foundation link is a untruth, to be honest. Given the LGBA’s charitable status I guess we’ll get definitive evidence at some point.
      - notahacker 4y ago
        I will backtrack a little and concede that it's not evidenced that the LGBA itself taking the cash, but here's its founder talking about how the wider movement she represents wouldn't have even been possible in the United States without Heritage Foundation backing https://twitter.com/BevJacksonAuth/status/1153964242103615489?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1153964242103615489%7Ctwgr%5Ef31ee71d60c7cfc7079a6c707ec0988d5102ff77%7Ctwcon%5Es1 https://twitter.com/BevJacksonAuth/status/115396424210361548... (not her only tweet defending the need for feminists to work with the Heritage Foundation) I think being such a niche cause that only your notional political enemies pursuing a divide and conquer strategy will work with you internationally is what most people mean when they accuse a cause of being "astroturfed" [For the avoidance of doubt I fully agree that in other respects, they do not share the same political views and that they are not closet hardline antifeminists in disguise]
- bobsmooth 4y ago
  The LGB Alliance is a recognized charity and is chaired by a lesbian woman.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    Charity regulation in the UK is ... Lax.
nisegami 4y ago
You've just described an anti-LGBT organization while claiming it is not
- pessimizer 4y ago
  You've implied that a bunch of gay people are anti-gay because of the gay organization they belong to that advocates for gays.
  - nisegami 4y ago
    I claim that they're anti-LGBT, not anti-gay
    - bobsmooth 4y ago
      They are pro-LGB. If you think that means they're anti-LGBT that's on you.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    They're not "anti-gay", they're anti-the-wrong-sort-of-gay. You're only gay if you're the kind of gay they approve of.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      - Gordonjcp 4y ago
        Yeah, you don't need to explain it to me, and especially not incorrectly.
        LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
        If I was wrong you'd have corrected me. People have a legal and moral right to self-associate with those they choose and to exclude those sabotaging their political movements.
elsonrodriguez 4y ago
You're right, they're not exclusively anti-LGBT. Looking at their cases page, they are also "Anti Woke". https://www.badlawproject.com/cases https://www.badlawproject.com/cases They highlight a case with Amy Gallahger, who is an adamant "anti-CRT" activist per her Twitter. So it seems they were focused on other things, but have pivoted to anti-trans activism(hence the amount of Pride imagery on their front page). Tactically it makes sense. They are following the lead of other such organizations by focusing on anti-trans rhetoric, as it is currently more palatable, before pivoting back to marginalizing other minorities.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
> that don't have the support of most of the UK population [citation needed]
- implements 4y ago
  https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2022/... It’s a tricky read, but a gist might be that most Brits are generally well-meaning, fairly uninformed, and tend to be conservative when asked questions about specific scenarios: “Recognition: most Britons say that people should be able to change their social gender, but are split on whether they should be able to change their legal gender” “Process: Britons oppose making it easier to legally change gender“ “Access to sport: Britons oppose transgender athletes taking part in sporting events for their new gender” “Access to treatment: Britons are split on the NHS providing hormone therapy for trans people, and tend to oppose it providing gender reassignment surgery”
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    Ah, but that's a Yougov poll, so carefully selected from Daily Heil readers.

by Veen 4y ago

nibbleshifter 4y ago

The LGB Alliance is funded by the Heritage Foundation, and are widely regarded in the UK as a thinly disguised hate group. Make of that what you will.

gawbla 4y ago
> The LGB Alliance is funded by the Heritage Foundation No it is not. Please don't spread mistruths. > and are widely regarded in the UK as a thinly disguised hate group I doubt that most people in the UK have heard of this charity. Also this is a very disingenuous view of their aims.
implements 4y ago
(Non-combative) do you have a non-partisan source? - I ask because I’ve seen that and other similar statements (“The LGB Alliance is an astroturfed organisation”) on Twitter, and wonder if they’re objectively true or exaggerations / distortions from opposing activists?
- notahacker 4y ago
  It's almost impossible to find non-partisan sources on culture war debates and the definition of "astroturfed" is debatable. It is true that the LGB Alliance was formed by a small group of primarily lesbians who strongly disagreed with positions held longstanding LGBT groups that had historically campaigned for lesbian (and gay) rights. It is also true that the Heritage Foundation, more noted for sponsoring anti-gay groups, is its primary sponsor, and that the group's primary activity is campaigning against gender recognition and access to treatment for gender dysphoria. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the group is quite popular with conservative journalists and highly unpopular with most lesbian and gay people familiar with them.
  - implements 4y ago
    > is also true that the Heritage Foundation […] is its primary sponsor, I can’t find evidence of this, and the LGBA website says their primary funding comes from individual donations. https://staging.lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/gary-powell-why-the-gender-ideology-activists-are-wrong-about-me-the-heritage-foundation-and-lgb-alliance/ https://staging.lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/gary-powell-wh... The above article makes this point: Why would it donate to an organisation that campaigns for lesbian, gay and bisexual rights, that has an overwhelmingly left-wing membership, and that was founded by two left-wing lesbian feminists? - given the LGBA’s position is: “(W)e do not, and will not, forge links with, or accept funding from, any organisation… that seeks to undermine women’s reproductive rights.” - which the Heritage Foundation oppose, I gather. I’m inclined to believe the Heritage Foundation link is a untruth, to be honest. Given the LGBA’s charitable status I guess we’ll get definitive evidence at some point.
    - notahacker 4y ago
      I will backtrack a little and concede that it's not evidenced that the LGBA itself taking the cash, but here's its founder talking about how the wider movement she represents wouldn't have even been possible in the United States without Heritage Foundation backing https://twitter.com/BevJacksonAuth/status/1153964242103615489?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1153964242103615489%7Ctwgr%5Ef31ee71d60c7cfc7079a6c707ec0988d5102ff77%7Ctwcon%5Es1 https://twitter.com/BevJacksonAuth/status/115396424210361548... (not her only tweet defending the need for feminists to work with the Heritage Foundation) I think being such a niche cause that only your notional political enemies pursuing a divide and conquer strategy will work with you internationally is what most people mean when they accuse a cause of being "astroturfed" [For the avoidance of doubt I fully agree that in other respects, they do not share the same political views and that they are not closet hardline antifeminists in disguise]
bobsmooth 4y ago
The LGB Alliance is a recognized charity and is chaired by a lesbian woman.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Charity regulation in the UK is ... Lax.

nisegami 4y ago

You've just described an anti-LGBT organization while claiming it is not

pessimizer 4y ago
You've implied that a bunch of gay people are anti-gay because of the gay organization they belong to that advocates for gays.
- nisegami 4y ago
  I claim that they're anti-LGBT, not anti-gay
  - bobsmooth 4y ago
    They are pro-LGB. If you think that means they're anti-LGBT that's on you.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  They're not "anti-gay", they're anti-the-wrong-sort-of-gay. You're only gay if you're the kind of gay they approve of.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      Yeah, you don't need to explain it to me, and especially not incorrectly.
      - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
        If I was wrong you'd have corrected me. People have a legal and moral right to self-associate with those they choose and to exclude those sabotaging their political movements.

elsonrodriguez 4y ago

You're right, they're not exclusively anti-LGBT. Looking at their cases page, they are also "Anti Woke". https://www.badlawproject.com/cases https://www.badlawproject.com/cases They highlight a case with Amy Gallahger, who is an adamant "anti-CRT" activist per her Twitter. So it seems they were focused on other things, but have pivoted to anti-trans activism(hence the amount of Pride imagery on their front page). Tactically it makes sense. They are following the lead of other such organizations by focusing on anti-trans rhetoric, as it is currently more palatable, before pivoting back to marginalizing other minorities.

Gordonjcp 4y ago

> that don't have the support of most of the UK population [citation needed]

implements 4y ago
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2022/... It’s a tricky read, but a gist might be that most Brits are generally well-meaning, fairly uninformed, and tend to be conservative when asked questions about specific scenarios: “Recognition: most Britons say that people should be able to change their social gender, but are split on whether they should be able to change their legal gender” “Process: Britons oppose making it easier to legally change gender“ “Access to sport: Britons oppose transgender athletes taking part in sporting events for their new gender” “Access to treatment: Britons are split on the NHS providing hormone therapy for trans people, and tend to oppose it providing gender reassignment surgery”
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Ah, but that's a Yougov poll, so carefully selected from Daily Heil readers.