5 ms·

The other day, in our _private_ parking lot, a car drove through with license platter scanner attached. Up and down each row. It wasn't marked, and the scanners

The other day, in our _private_ parking lot, a car drove through with license platter scanner attached. Up and down each row. It wasn't marked, and the scanners were bolted on. Civilian plate, early 20s driver. We called the police, but they wouldn't do anything as the car was gone, and we didn't get the exact plate number. Like _what in the actual @#$%? What jackass Silicon Valley startup is funding this operation? It's this kind of stuff, which is illegal, but because it's hard to enforce, people will get away with. These people have obviously trespassed hundreds of times.

jcims 4y ago
How do you know that's what it was? Why would anyone need anything more than a simple camera for that application? Is it possible it was using LIDAR or some other tech for another application?
- thereddaikon 4y ago
  Why does it matter? Why is it ok to drive through a private property and just scan shit, regardless of the specific technology used?
  - jcims 4y ago
    There are a number of valid reasons. Immediately jumping to the most conspiratorial may not be the healthiest approach.
    - zmgsabst 4y ago
      Okay — name a few specific reasons.
    - Guest42 4y ago
      I'd want to know what was done with the data after the scanning. Perhaps a specific car is being sought and the data is discarded afterwards, which would be more ethical than keeping the data and attempting to profit off of it, regardless of whether it's "legal" and there's some attempt at "disrupting an industry."
- hailwren 4y ago
  Yeah, if I wanted to do a license-plate scanning startup -- I would just use an off-the-shelf dash cam and a laptop. No need at all for special optical equipment.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    And you'd miss a lot of the cars. By hanging them off the sides of the car, they can scan both sides of the aisle in one pass. They also need to be weather proofed, hence the housings.
  - nullc 4y ago
    Under ideal conditions you'll be able to read a limited amount right in front of the camera. Want to read plates at/after dusk or to the sides (e.g. parked cars) and you'll need special hardware. I have a fixed APNR camera on my property and even with good positioning it can't always read the plates (nor can I manually) because sometimes sunlight glare blows out enough of the image to hide a digit or two. I promise you that the people building these systems didn't just fail to think of using an off the shelf camera before they went out and deployed the fancy stuff.
  - LeafItAlone 4y ago
    Depends what the company’s focus is, right? If you want to do something with the data, why not use the already made, high quality devices that are relatively cheap. Seems like the important piece is likely using the data. (Unless you are trying to create the devices themselves, of course)
paconbork 4y ago
Could it have been someone working with a car repossession group?
LeifCarrotson 4y ago
If a car drove through with a human driver who was either looking for a specific plate/vehicle they thought might be parked in your lot, or a human who was simply following bad directions, no one would bat an eye or call it "trespassing". The problem is that politicians and the law fail to recognize that there's importance in the quantitative difference between one human doing something, like reading a license plate, and a computer doing the same thing a billion times.
- nullc 4y ago
  > or a human who was simply following bad directions, no one would bat an eye or call it "trespassing". Humans venturing onto private property where they don't belong are regularly greeted by a property owner politely wielding a shotgun and offering to give them directions back to where they belong. If anything, I think it's the addition of some computer contraption that creates the free pass, like putting on a hardhat-- if you've got gear people are more likely to assume that you're supposed to be there.
  - abduhl 4y ago
    Sounds like the GP’s instance happened in Silicon Valley based on their rant against SV startups. Silicon Valley isn’t the type of place where the property owner wields a shotgun and asks you to leave because they’ve made guns illegal, made kicking trespassers off almost illegal, or because their armed security guards never let you in in the first place.
    - nullc 4y ago
      More of a property of suburbia than silicon valley.
  - Kye 4y ago
    Brandishing is actually a crime in most places in the US. Laws vary, but you generally do not have a right to threaten someone's life with a gun--and the gun itself is a threat even if not pointed unless it's not in your hands--if they're not actually threatening you. Doesn't matter if it's your property.
dylan604 4y ago
There are private companies that roll around looking for cars scheduled for repossesion, and will call in their tow trucks if one is found. You'll also see cops do this in some of the "more affordable" motel parking lots, as these tend to attract the types with open warrants.
- jo6gwb 4y ago
  In NYC they do this with NYC Marshals riding shotgun. The vehicles are plain white and say scofflaw patrol. Here's an article about it https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/seen-at-11-on-the-hunt-with-the-car-booting-scofflaw-patrol/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/seen-at-11-on-the-hunt-...
  - dylan604 4y ago
    The art in that article really is unimpressive. No pics of the cameras, no details of the screen used to ID, no pics of anything at all that is interesting and enhances the article. Just shows that even 8 years ago web journalism sucked
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      CBS is a television station, so I would assume this is a transcript of a TV segment (how most TV stations post online content)
      - dylan604 4y ago
        i'd be shocked if the video segment was any better. however, where's the video segment?
        bobthepanda 4y ago
        The article is 8 years old. I feel like multimedia players come and go (unlike the stability of say the <img> element), so it’s entirely probable that the site looked different 8 years ago, and a migration or few later the video content was lost.
nullc 4y ago
Property rights you're not prepared to enforce are meaningless. To start with: Put up a gate, it should be entirely effective against this kind of intrusion.
LinuxBender 4y ago
Along the same line, when I did work for a police department in a small town we started getting cops from LAPD that had a very different mind-set. They would drive around the theater parking lot which is a private lot and would ticket expired plates. Most of the people there were teenagers and the cops knew they were not likely going to fight it. The original small town cops would not do petty nickle-and-diming tactics like that.
- windows2020 4y ago
  'Quasi-public property'
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nimbius 4y ago
ah the venerable license plate. welcome to the 21st century. parking garages, theme parks and malls routinely do this as well. entering a private parking lot is surely criminal trespass, but most cops dont care so long as your trespasser is gone and no damage was reported. most highways, onramps, and many intersections include hidden or overt plate readers as well. airports use them extensively as well. Ive even seen them at a gas station car wash of all places. the DMV in many states also sells your personal information for profit. through massive defunding and regulatory capture, the entire license process for a vehicle has largely become a thinly veiled clearing house to shore up random state departmental revenue.
- tempnow987 4y ago
- ev1 4y ago
  > parking garages, theme parks and malls routinely do this as well. Yep. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/eff-responds-vigilant-solutions-accusations-about-eff-alpr-report https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/eff-responds-vigilant-... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/california-shopping-centers-are-spying-ice-contractor https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/california-shopping-ce...
tempnow987 4y ago
Some quick questions for your super outrage. 1) Did they break down a gate to get onto your private property? 2) Do ANY other folks use "your" private property? Are you falsely claiming ownership rights to something that has a form of common ownership? 3) When you claim it's your property and entry is forbidden - has ANYONE else given permission (explicit / implicit) for non property owners to access? Think of things like family members of an owner, guests, UPS drivers, delivery drivers , maintenance folks etc. Is it clear that anyone who is not an owner can't access? This is normally managed by an attended gate system or similar. 4) Are you one of those folks who like to yell at minority or others in your neighborhood who don't "belong"? We've seen videos of delivery drivers dealing with folks like you who (often falsely) claim ownership of property. 5) If you don't PERSONALLY own the property, have you been explicitly authorized to act as an agent of the property? You'd be surprised at the number of folks like you claiming personal ownership who actually have ZERO rights to trespass a delivery driver etc. 6) You've made a strong claim it's illegal for someone to come onto the property, CA law protects folks unless they have been trespassed. Has that occurred? Note: Many property management companies partner with third parties to help manage lots. If you have a shortage of parking or someone actively managing lot (not you) they may contract for things like expired tags / stolen vehicles and other tow services. They may walk the lot. They can also pay for someone to come and see which cars may be parking regularly without paying required parking permit fees etc. Many homeowners PREFER that someone sweep their lots.
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  Arguments great apart from: "dealing with folks like you who (often falsely)....". Let the person answer the questions, and then start the crucifiction [sic]?
  - tempnow987 4y ago
    Great. I look forward to the answers! Having been around the block a few times with folks who are a) outraged b) make ridiculous claims of criminal activity I've gotten probably a bit too quick to assume they fall into a certain type of person. I look forward to hearing more about this parking lot that is so strictly controlled that merely driving through it is a crime.
refurb 4y ago
It's this kind of stuff, which is illegal It is? Is it a California specific law? It is private property, but there is public access. You could ask them to leave, but I wasn't aware a crime had been committed.

jcims 4y ago

How do you know that's what it was? Why would anyone need anything more than a simple camera for that application? Is it possible it was using LIDAR or some other tech for another application?

thereddaikon 4y ago
Why does it matter? Why is it ok to drive through a private property and just scan shit, regardless of the specific technology used?
- jcims 4y ago
  There are a number of valid reasons. Immediately jumping to the most conspiratorial may not be the healthiest approach.
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    Okay — name a few specific reasons.
  - Guest42 4y ago
    I'd want to know what was done with the data after the scanning. Perhaps a specific car is being sought and the data is discarded afterwards, which would be more ethical than keeping the data and attempting to profit off of it, regardless of whether it's "legal" and there's some attempt at "disrupting an industry."
hailwren 4y ago
Yeah, if I wanted to do a license-plate scanning startup -- I would just use an off-the-shelf dash cam and a laptop. No need at all for special optical equipment.
- dylan604 4y ago
  And you'd miss a lot of the cars. By hanging them off the sides of the car, they can scan both sides of the aisle in one pass. They also need to be weather proofed, hence the housings.
- nullc 4y ago
  Under ideal conditions you'll be able to read a limited amount right in front of the camera. Want to read plates at/after dusk or to the sides (e.g. parked cars) and you'll need special hardware. I have a fixed APNR camera on my property and even with good positioning it can't always read the plates (nor can I manually) because sometimes sunlight glare blows out enough of the image to hide a digit or two. I promise you that the people building these systems didn't just fail to think of using an off the shelf camera before they went out and deployed the fancy stuff.
- LeafItAlone 4y ago
  Depends what the company’s focus is, right? If you want to do something with the data, why not use the already made, high quality devices that are relatively cheap. Seems like the important piece is likely using the data. (Unless you are trying to create the devices themselves, of course)

paconbork 4y ago

Could it have been someone working with a car repossession group?

LeifCarrotson 4y ago

If a car drove through with a human driver who was either looking for a specific plate/vehicle they thought might be parked in your lot, or a human who was simply following bad directions, no one would bat an eye or call it "trespassing". The problem is that politicians and the law fail to recognize that there's importance in the quantitative difference between one human doing something, like reading a license plate, and a computer doing the same thing a billion times.

nullc 4y ago
> or a human who was simply following bad directions, no one would bat an eye or call it "trespassing". Humans venturing onto private property where they don't belong are regularly greeted by a property owner politely wielding a shotgun and offering to give them directions back to where they belong. If anything, I think it's the addition of some computer contraption that creates the free pass, like putting on a hardhat-- if you've got gear people are more likely to assume that you're supposed to be there.
- abduhl 4y ago
  Sounds like the GP’s instance happened in Silicon Valley based on their rant against SV startups. Silicon Valley isn’t the type of place where the property owner wields a shotgun and asks you to leave because they’ve made guns illegal, made kicking trespassers off almost illegal, or because their armed security guards never let you in in the first place.
  - nullc 4y ago
    More of a property of suburbia than silicon valley.
- Kye 4y ago
  Brandishing is actually a crime in most places in the US. Laws vary, but you generally do not have a right to threaten someone's life with a gun--and the gun itself is a threat even if not pointed unless it's not in your hands--if they're not actually threatening you. Doesn't matter if it's your property.

dylan604 4y ago

There are private companies that roll around looking for cars scheduled for repossesion, and will call in their tow trucks if one is found. You'll also see cops do this in some of the "more affordable" motel parking lots, as these tend to attract the types with open warrants.

jo6gwb 4y ago
In NYC they do this with NYC Marshals riding shotgun. The vehicles are plain white and say scofflaw patrol. Here's an article about it https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/seen-at-11-on-the-hunt-with-the-car-booting-scofflaw-patrol/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/seen-at-11-on-the-hunt-...
- dylan604 4y ago
  The art in that article really is unimpressive. No pics of the cameras, no details of the screen used to ID, no pics of anything at all that is interesting and enhances the article. Just shows that even 8 years ago web journalism sucked
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    CBS is a television station, so I would assume this is a transcript of a TV segment (how most TV stations post online content)
    - dylan604 4y ago
      i'd be shocked if the video segment was any better. however, where's the video segment?
      - bobthepanda 4y ago
        The article is 8 years old. I feel like multimedia players come and go (unlike the stability of say the <img> element), so it’s entirely probable that the site looked different 8 years ago, and a migration or few later the video content was lost.

nullc 4y ago

Property rights you're not prepared to enforce are meaningless. To start with: Put up a gate, it should be entirely effective against this kind of intrusion.

LinuxBender 4y ago

Along the same line, when I did work for a police department in a small town we started getting cops from LAPD that had a very different mind-set. They would drive around the theater parking lot which is a private lot and would ticket expired plates. Most of the people there were teenagers and the cops knew they were not likely going to fight it. The original small town cops would not do petty nickle-and-diming tactics like that.

windows2020 4y ago
'Quasi-public property'

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nimbius 4y ago

ah the venerable license plate. welcome to the 21st century. parking garages, theme parks and malls routinely do this as well. entering a private parking lot is surely criminal trespass, but most cops dont care so long as your trespasser is gone and no damage was reported. most highways, onramps, and many intersections include hidden or overt plate readers as well. airports use them extensively as well. Ive even seen them at a gas station car wash of all places. the DMV in many states also sells your personal information for profit. through massive defunding and regulatory capture, the entire license process for a vehicle has largely become a thinly veiled clearing house to shore up random state departmental revenue.

tempnow987 4y ago
ev1 4y ago
> parking garages, theme parks and malls routinely do this as well. Yep. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/eff-responds-vigilant-solutions-accusations-about-eff-alpr-report https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/eff-responds-vigilant-... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/california-shopping-centers-are-spying-ice-contractor https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/07/california-shopping-ce...

tempnow987 4y ago

Some quick questions for your super outrage. 1) Did they break down a gate to get onto your private property? 2) Do ANY other folks use "your" private property? Are you falsely claiming ownership rights to something that has a form of common ownership? 3) When you claim it's your property and entry is forbidden - has ANYONE else given permission (explicit / implicit) for non property owners to access? Think of things like family members of an owner, guests, UPS drivers, delivery drivers , maintenance folks etc. Is it clear that anyone who is not an owner can't access? This is normally managed by an attended gate system or similar. 4) Are you one of those folks who like to yell at minority or others in your neighborhood who don't "belong"? We've seen videos of delivery drivers dealing with folks like you who (often falsely) claim ownership of property. 5) If you don't PERSONALLY own the property, have you been explicitly authorized to act as an agent of the property? You'd be surprised at the number of folks like you claiming personal ownership who actually have ZERO rights to trespass a delivery driver etc. 6) You've made a strong claim it's illegal for someone to come onto the property, CA law protects folks unless they have been trespassed. Has that occurred? Note: Many property management companies partner with third parties to help manage lots. If you have a shortage of parking or someone actively managing lot (not you) they may contract for things like expired tags / stolen vehicles and other tow services. They may walk the lot. They can also pay for someone to come and see which cars may be parking regularly without paying required parking permit fees etc. Many homeowners PREFER that someone sweep their lots.

InCityDreams 4y ago
Arguments great apart from: "dealing with folks like you who (often falsely)....". Let the person answer the questions, and then start the crucifiction [sic]?
- tempnow987 4y ago
  Great. I look forward to the answers! Having been around the block a few times with folks who are a) outraged b) make ridiculous claims of criminal activity I've gotten probably a bit too quick to assume they fall into a certain type of person. I look forward to hearing more about this parking lot that is so strictly controlled that merely driving through it is a crime.

refurb 4y ago

It's this kind of stuff, which is illegal It is? Is it a California specific law? It is private property, but there is public access. You could ask them to leave, but I wasn't aware a crime had been committed.