4 ms·

The number of people defending this guy is crazy. First off HN, don't post the Irish Mirror as a source, it's probably bullshit. Secondly, this guy posted lit

The number of people defending this guy is crazy. First off HN, don't post the Irish Mirror as a source, it's probably bullshit. Secondly, this guy posted literal swastikas made of pride flags. The Nazis killed and experimented on gay people. Tyranny is what happens when we don't confront this behaviour. Thirdly, this has been taken up as a cause celebre by such right-wing nutbags as Laurence Fox. Hacker News is better than this and if its not, I don't want to be here.

sebzim4500 4y ago
I'm sure we can all agree that the guy is an asshole but that doesn't mean he should be arrested.
Veen 4y ago
Nothing that you have said, all of which I agree with, justifies police involvement. The tweeter is a moron and he is being used by right-wing ideologues like Fox to promote their agenda. But so what? Being a right-wing fool shouldn't prompt a visit from the police looking to "check your thinking," as a constable in a similar recent incident put it.
- deleted 4y ago
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mytailorisrich 4y ago
The original tweet was not an insult to LGBT people in general but to a noisy fringe that is extremely intolerant and are forcing their ideology onto others. At least that's my personal interpretation. What many people object to, for instance, are things like JK Rowling being cancelled because she dared say that women may not feel safe in toilets with men. This is the sort of things that prompted the original tweet although it is obviously a provocation (being by Laurence Fox, who is notorious in the UK). Now, in any case, I don't believe that the original tweet or its thousands of retweets received a police response. And by and large the consensus seems to be that no crime has been committed. So the issue in this guy's case is that the police overreacted based on a single complaint, which they could have investigated simply by looking at the tweet...
- Elinvynia 4y ago
  Good thing that men aren't in women's toilets then! I'm glad we both agree that trans women should use the women bathroom, and trans men should use the men bathroom. Otherwise there would be literal (trans) men in women's toilets.
  - thegrimmest 4y ago
    I think to agree about that we have to agree what the words "man" and "woman" mean. If they are derived from biology (ie. "adult human male/female") then no, we don't agree. Of course if you "pass" then I don't think anyone has an issue in practice. The issue would be for non-passing, obviously male, people making women feel uncomfortable in their spaces. Hoping this can be discussed reasonably.
_-david-_ 4y ago
People are defending the guy because they believe you should be allowed to post things that some people find offensive. If you don't believe in that principle you should just say it instead of trying to discredit people supporting free speech.
proffeatur8 4y ago
ch4s3 4y ago
As much as I don't like it, calling your political adversaries nazis is pretty typical in the Anglosphere. People usually mean those people over there are authoritarian in some vague sense and I don't like what they're doing. It's obnoxious, shitty, and I wish they would stop but I fail to see why it should be a crime. > Tyranny is what happens when we don't confront this behaviour The history of speech codes doesn't provide evidence for this claim. Actual historical Nazis were arrested for violating hate speech laws in the Weimar Republic, and used those arrests to promote their cause and their own victim narrative. Then when those same Nazis came to power they used speech laws to ban political dissent. Speech codes in the south in the US were used to arrest and harass civil rights activists on the basis that the were promoting racial animus and hate. The US used to lock people up for protesting the draft along similar arguments. Anywhere you look speech codes are either used for oppression, or are useless in stopping hateful people. This happens because the either operate like the Streisand Effect or prohibit legitimate discussion and create zone of forbidden speech where hateful people can gather and disseminate their nonsense free from scrutiny and public debate. I highly recommend Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media by Jacob Mchangama[1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Free-Speech-History-Socrates-Social/dp/1541600495 https://www.amazon.com/Free-Speech-History-Socrates-Social/d...
nme01 4y ago
What if someone sees LGBT ideology as something resembling nazism and that’s their way of expressing this? If they truly believe so, they should get a chance to explain themselves. I don’t want to take sides here but in general punishing people for hurting someone’s feelings is a bad thing in meritocracy (which I wish we had).

sebzim4500 4y ago

I'm sure we can all agree that the guy is an asshole but that doesn't mean he should be arrested.

Veen 4y ago

Nothing that you have said, all of which I agree with, justifies police involvement. The tweeter is a moron and he is being used by right-wing ideologues like Fox to promote their agenda. But so what? Being a right-wing fool shouldn't prompt a visit from the police looking to "check your thinking," as a constable in a similar recent incident put it.

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mytailorisrich 4y ago

The original tweet was not an insult to LGBT people in general but to a noisy fringe that is extremely intolerant and are forcing their ideology onto others. At least that's my personal interpretation. What many people object to, for instance, are things like JK Rowling being cancelled because she dared say that women may not feel safe in toilets with men. This is the sort of things that prompted the original tweet although it is obviously a provocation (being by Laurence Fox, who is notorious in the UK). Now, in any case, I don't believe that the original tweet or its thousands of retweets received a police response. And by and large the consensus seems to be that no crime has been committed. So the issue in this guy's case is that the police overreacted based on a single complaint, which they could have investigated simply by looking at the tweet...

Elinvynia 4y ago
Good thing that men aren't in women's toilets then! I'm glad we both agree that trans women should use the women bathroom, and trans men should use the men bathroom. Otherwise there would be literal (trans) men in women's toilets.
- thegrimmest 4y ago
  I think to agree about that we have to agree what the words "man" and "woman" mean. If they are derived from biology (ie. "adult human male/female") then no, we don't agree. Of course if you "pass" then I don't think anyone has an issue in practice. The issue would be for non-passing, obviously male, people making women feel uncomfortable in their spaces. Hoping this can be discussed reasonably.

_-david-_ 4y ago

People are defending the guy because they believe you should be allowed to post things that some people find offensive. If you don't believe in that principle you should just say it instead of trying to discredit people supporting free speech.

proffeatur8 4y ago

ch4s3 4y ago

As much as I don't like it, calling your political adversaries nazis is pretty typical in the Anglosphere. People usually mean those people over there are authoritarian in some vague sense and I don't like what they're doing. It's obnoxious, shitty, and I wish they would stop but I fail to see why it should be a crime. > Tyranny is what happens when we don't confront this behaviour The history of speech codes doesn't provide evidence for this claim. Actual historical Nazis were arrested for violating hate speech laws in the Weimar Republic, and used those arrests to promote their cause and their own victim narrative. Then when those same Nazis came to power they used speech laws to ban political dissent. Speech codes in the south in the US were used to arrest and harass civil rights activists on the basis that the were promoting racial animus and hate. The US used to lock people up for protesting the draft along similar arguments. Anywhere you look speech codes are either used for oppression, or are useless in stopping hateful people. This happens because the either operate like the Streisand Effect or prohibit legitimate discussion and create zone of forbidden speech where hateful people can gather and disseminate their nonsense free from scrutiny and public debate. I highly recommend Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media by Jacob Mchangama[1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Free-Speech-History-Socrates-Social/dp/1541600495 https://www.amazon.com/Free-Speech-History-Socrates-Social/d...

nme01 4y ago

What if someone sees LGBT ideology as something resembling nazism and that’s their way of expressing this? If they truly believe so, they should get a chance to explain themselves. I don’t want to take sides here but in general punishing people for hurting someone’s feelings is a bad thing in meritocracy (which I wish we had).