3 ms·

Most of the features here (and in Rust updates in general these days) are just the loosening of constraints on what you could already do. If anything, these typ

Most of the features here (and in Rust updates in general these days) are just the loosening of constraints on what you could already do. If anything, these types of changes make the language conceptually simpler. This gets pointed out by somebody in the comment section under every Rust update. The trope that Rust is getting harder to use is tired, and not really based in reality.

ActorNightly 4y ago
Different syntax = different ways of doing things = codebases that diverge in implementation. It doesn't matter if the new way doing things is conceptually simpler, you are now creating 2 ways to do things based on what version of the compiler you use, which people will have to know, therefore increasing complexity, not reducing it. I don't understand how people don't get this by now. Saying "oh just learn and use the latest version" is completely unrealistic guidance. And while its fine for high level scripting languages like Python, because the whole idea is to abstract a lot of the functionality into the syntax, the issue with Rust is that its trying to be the next C and be applicable for writing critically important pieces of software like parts of the linux kernel. You absolutely must have a locked down language set for this. The reason C is still used for the kernel isn't because of circumstances, its specifically because there is very few ambiguities in the core language.
- brundolf 4y ago
  > you are now creating 2 ways to do things based on what version of the compiler you use Which of the features in Rust 1.63 adds a divergent way of doing something you could already do? > The reason C is still used for the kernel isn't because of circumstances, its specifically because there is very few ambiguities in the core language What are some ambiguities in the core Rust language?
- mbrubeck 4y ago
  Which "different syntax" are you talking about? I don't see any changes in this release that add new syntax to the language.
- game-of-throws 4y ago
  C was used because it existed 30 years ago, and is full of ambiguities (undefined behavior), and Rust curtails UB quite a bit by defining many semantics that are left unspecified in C. You don't need a "locked down" language to build an OS. In fact Linux just upgraded the version of C they use to C11. Time always marches forward, my friend.
  - sophacles 4y ago
    And C is about to get C23 with additionaly syntax and features.

ActorNightly 4y ago

Different syntax = different ways of doing things = codebases that diverge in implementation. It doesn't matter if the new way doing things is conceptually simpler, you are now creating 2 ways to do things based on what version of the compiler you use, which people will have to know, therefore increasing complexity, not reducing it. I don't understand how people don't get this by now. Saying "oh just learn and use the latest version" is completely unrealistic guidance. And while its fine for high level scripting languages like Python, because the whole idea is to abstract a lot of the functionality into the syntax, the issue with Rust is that its trying to be the next C and be applicable for writing critically important pieces of software like parts of the linux kernel. You absolutely must have a locked down language set for this. The reason C is still used for the kernel isn't because of circumstances, its specifically because there is very few ambiguities in the core language.

brundolf 4y ago
> you are now creating 2 ways to do things based on what version of the compiler you use Which of the features in Rust 1.63 adds a divergent way of doing something you could already do? > The reason C is still used for the kernel isn't because of circumstances, its specifically because there is very few ambiguities in the core language What are some ambiguities in the core Rust language?
mbrubeck 4y ago
Which "different syntax" are you talking about? I don't see any changes in this release that add new syntax to the language.
game-of-throws 4y ago
C was used because it existed 30 years ago, and is full of ambiguities (undefined behavior), and Rust curtails UB quite a bit by defining many semantics that are left unspecified in C. You don't need a "locked down" language to build an OS. In fact Linux just upgraded the version of C they use to C11. Time always marches forward, my friend.
- sophacles 4y ago
  And C is about to get C23 with additionaly syntax and features.